Jen Dugard 0:00
If you're listening to this podcast in real time, you may or may not know that we're both celebrating our podcast launch and the launch of our brand new mums safe trainer offering. If you're a trainer that works with mums and wants to be known as the go to trainer for mums in your area, you need to head to www.jenduguard.com forward slash moms safe trainer and find out more. I'll see you there. Welcome to Episode One of the mum safe movement podcast. I'm your host, Jen Dugard, and I'm here to help you to own your own shit and level up your mum focus fitness business, so that you can have the biggest impact possible on your own life and the lives of the community of women that you serve. For episode one, I thought it'd be a good idea for you to get to know me, I wanted to set the stage for openness, vulnerability, honesty, and insight. I want you to know that this is a place you can feel safe, and you can be yourself. And for our guests that come along as we move forward to do the exact same thing. I want you to realize if you haven't done already, that business, just like life is a little bit messy. So who better to invite the my best friend Sarah, Sarah and I met when she was a body Beyond Baby mom. Many, many years ago, we've been through so many ups and downs together. She knows my life. She knows my business journey. And I wanted her to help me to share my journey with you. So that we start as we mean to go on. I truly hope you enjoy today's episode, and that you'll join me as we go on this journey to create the mum safe movement podcast.
I don't even know how to start. Yeah, that's
Sarah 2:06
always the hardest part, I guess. Well, I guess you asked me to interview for your podcast, because we've known each other for decades.
Unknown Speaker 2:16
A long time. Yeah, you're on time. Yep.
Speaker 1 2:18
And we've gone through heaps of different things upstairs, professionally and personally and friendship stuff. And it felt like a good more comfortable fit, I guess to be interviewed by someone that can already knows the gist of your life
Jen Dugard 2:31
and can talk about all the shit that you forget about or Yeah, yeah. Can prompt. Yes.
Speaker 1 2:38
And also can pull you and your bullshit. Yeah, I expect to be okay. Yeah, so
Sarah 2:52
why did you want to start the podcast.
Speaker 2 2:55
So the mom segment podcast came about, because of my desire to help other fitness professionals understand or help fitness professionals that are driven to change the way that moms are taught in the industry in a way that's more efficient than I ever did it. So what I became, I guess,
Jen Dugard 3:18
aware of is, you know,
Speaker 2 3:21
you start a business, you do all these things, you try and do them in the order that you think that they need to be done. And then along the way, or in hindsight, and the beauty I've got now is I look at all the different people that I've been to for coaching or guidance or ask questions to when I kind of go, Ah, if I had done that, first, maybe I would have got there quicker, or maybe I wouldn't have made those 12 mistakes. And maybe I wouldn't have wasted the money on the thing. Not to say all of the experiences weren't good and valid. But what I want to do, especially with the first series is bring into this space, all of the people that I've learned from so that the fitness professional that wants to change the way mums are looked after in the industry can do it quicker and more efficiently and have the impact that they are truly capable of.
Speaker 1 4:12
So they're not kind of starting blind from scratch, like you were. Yeah,
Speaker 2 4:16
yeah. And it's interesting, because some people, you know, I have conversations with trainers all the time. And some of them say to me, oh, no, I'll come back when I've created my business. And I always find that kind of interesting, because one of the biggest awarenesses that we have as fitness professionals is the client that says, oh, no, I'll come back to you when I've got fit. And you're like, don't you understand that if I worked with you now, you could save so much time and so much energy and we could just get you there quicker, but everyone has to do at the right time.
Speaker 1 4:48
Timing is everything. All right. Well, that was kind of a start about why starting a podcast but why don't we start at the beginning. Okay, the beginning of you. So Do you want to kind of tell me a little bit about where you're from, like your background?
Speaker 2 5:06
What Yeah, like as a kid? Absolutely. So I grew up in the UK. I grew up in a city called Stoke on Trent, which is not the most glamorous place in the world. very working class.
Jen Dugard 5:21
And
Speaker 2 5:24
I guess I was thinking about kind of school kind of time, I enjoyed primary school, and then it rapidly went downhill after that.
Speaker 1 5:35
Okay. So the transition from primary to high school was a kind of key moment, I guess, for you.
Speaker 2 5:43
Yeah, I mean, I in primary school, I was definitely bullied all the way through. Like, I feel like everywhere I went in my school environment, whether its primary school, then through to high school, and then through to college, which is the last few years of school in the UK. Somebody followed me so my I, although I enjoyed primary school, there was, you know, one or two girls that targeted me the whole time. Which always made me feel kind of on the outer of other people.
Jen Dugard 6:13
And
Speaker 2 6:16
yeah, I feel like moving to high school, I was really lucky that I moved from primary school to high school with a big group of friends. But I still managed to find what they found me. The people that just hassled me the whole way, whole way through school. Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't wish school on anyone. And now here I am with kids in school, trying not to but my experience of me on them.
Speaker 1 6:45
Yeah. So what would you say you were kind of like your personality, like, as a kid, primary and secondary.
Speaker 2 6:51
I feel like I was always driven. Like, I did gymnastics as a kid. And I remember wanting to work hard. I definitely wasn't the best. Like I was the kid that needed to work hard to, you know, there was some maybe natural ability there. But I wasn't, you know, the super flexible kid or their super strong person, I had to work to get the results. And then I always like, I remember, I wanted to be on stage when I was a kid. And I would, there was a newspaper called the stage and I would go through this newspaper for auditions. And I actually don't think I was that good either. But I was so I wanted to be on stage and I wanted to dance and I wanted to sing, I can't sing. But I was so driven. Like, I'd go through this newspaper every week. And I'd circle these auditions and I looked back, I managed to convince my dad at one point to drive me from stoke to Manchester every week. So I could take part in this theater workshop because it was nothing where we brought from so I think I was I knew what I wanted to do. And I was like, I'm just going to make it happen regardless. So I that inbuilt. What is that? Is that drive or just fucking stubborn? I don't know what
Speaker 1 8:04
it is. Combination. Yeah. Sounds like gymnastics also give you like that kind of discipline ethic. For like, hard work. Maybe set?
Speaker 2 8:12
Yeah, I think it did. I don't think I ever. I don't think I ever thought things would just be given to me. I didn't have a hard life as a kid. It wasn't, you know, we definitely didn't have everything. But we didn't go short.
Jen Dugard 8:28
Yeah, like, it's
Speaker 2 8:29
funny. Now I think about things through the lens of being a parent, and I look at my kids, and I'm like, do I make life too easy for them? Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1 8:41
Definitely. It's interesting, because I know your children's. Obviously, he sounds like you're describing your daughter when you describe yourself. Like everything you just reflected on there. Really? Yeah, like the stage and the drama. And
Speaker 2 8:54
she's better than me, though. Like she's naturally way better than I ever was.
Speaker 1 8:58
Maybe you were as good as India, but you don't see it because of your self esteem issues from the billion, maybe.
Speaker 2 9:05
But then I think then sometimes I get frustrated with her and go Why don't you? Why don't you just fucking do it? Like, why don't you get driven and do the thing that I wanted to do? And then I go that wasn't my that's not my, it's my experience is not to put my experience. No, it's not up to me to put my experience on her and my wants and my desires. But I actually see the flip side in her and I go, I feel like she's gonna be one of those people that the success comes to her because she actually doesn't give a fuck. I'm not saying that. She doesn't because again, I'm not in her head. And I can only speak from my observation of her. It's interesting, though, she doesn't care anywhere near as much as I did
Jen Dugard 9:40
about achieving the things.
Speaker 1 9:44
But I guess that's India, isn't it? Well, she's in Yemen all the time. Just enjoys it until she doesn't and then moves on.
Speaker 2 9:53
Like, how can you put that much effort in and then just move on like that Interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 1 10:04
So your your family, your older sister, younger sister. Yep, still lives in England? And do you want to talk a bit about that kind of dynamic group.
Jen Dugard 10:15
I'm four years, three and a half, four years older than her.
Speaker 2 10:21
It's interesting, because I mean, we obviously had a dynamic and I was the older kid. And the things that stand out and I remember is sitting on the couch and yelling upstairs back in the days when there was no remote control on the TV. So I would yell at the stairs for her to come down the stairs and change the TV channel because I couldn't be bothered to get off the couch. Like that's when I remember. Or convincing her to go to the shops and buy me the stuff I wanted from the shops. So I didn't have to go do it. But I left the UK when she was still quite young, like we'd never had that. I guess teenager, time together. I remember we used to fight like physically fight. I remember her throwing chicken curry on my head. She just like tipped it. Yeah, I remember that. Even is that? So? But I also remember us getting along. I remember as not getting along more than I remember is getting along. But I'm sure we must have gotten along, too. We did. Yeah. But I think because of that bigger age gap. Like what I look at my kids, they're two years apart. And then Sarah and I been three and a half four years apart. That's being when you're younger. And I think had I not left when I left? We would
Speaker 1 11:36
have caught each other. Yeah, because you left England what you were eating? Yeah, I
Speaker 2 11:40
finished school. And then I was like, we finished school and what, June July for the holidays? And I was gone by September, October.
Speaker 1 11:47
Yeah. Yeah, that's a big developmental gap, like 18 to 14, if you'd stayed to 22. And she was like, 18. And that's that different type? Exactly. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 11:56
Yeah. Cool.
Speaker 1 11:59
The only thing I'm like to flip back on was when you talked about being bullied at school, you know, and then what that kind of was done to your potential self esteem or, you know, you still talked as if you know, that they driven, focused, like determined person who was meant to addition and get on the stage. And, you know, we kind of compare that to, I guess the typical image people would have of someone that was like horrendously believe, like, consistently for years and years. They kind of don't match. So I'm just wondering, like, you know, how, or did it help you build resilience? Like, we're, what do you look back and reflect on that side of things? No,
Speaker 2 12:38
that's really interesting. I think. I tried to fit in a lot. So then I'm like, Why was I trying to do those things, but I wasn't necessarily with groups of friends that were doing, like, you know, we I did dance with, with friends and things like that. But what comes to mind straightaway is was I looking for my way out. So I, there was no doubt in my mind, I came to Australia when I was, I think I was 11 or 12. My mum brought me to Australia. Dad took me to America in the same year, so different contrasting experiences of holidays. And as soon as I came to Australia, I knew that I wanted to come back, I knew that I wanted to live here. And I also had an uncle who worked in the Australian film industry. So from being like, 12 13, having that experience that set the stage for me wanting to come back to Australia as soon as I could, which was when I left school. So I'm wondering whether being driven to do those things were my inner knowledge that I just wasn't staying.
Speaker 1 13:52
Yeah. And it's interesting as well, because, you know, you're saying you came here where you are Kind of 11 and 12, that cusp of like, you know, moving through the transition from girl to young adult and women and you've got an uncle in the film and theatre industry in Australia, in a culture that you really like, you know, you want to live here. And then you go back and then you're like, pounding through the stage magazine and going through auditions and, you know, maybe that kind of all linked, maybe.
Jen Dugard 14:20
I feel like I didn't
Speaker 2 14:21
ever feel like I belonged where I grew up. Like whether that's from I mean, it would have been from the way I got treated as a kid at school to Yeah, I don't know. I just never we weren't from there. Like I was born in Manchester. We spent some time in my sister was born in in Nottingham, then we moved to stoke so I don't think I ever had that affinity to the place. We didn't have we didn't have any family there. Yeah, I never felt like I belonged there. Okay.
Sarah 14:56
It was kind of close to around for like
Jen Dugard 15:00
Well, where am I going?
Speaker 1 15:02
All right, well, that kind of explains like why you chose Australia at 18. Like if you'd had such a good experience when you were 12. Like those formative years, it was like this magical place, I guess you want you to come back to. Yeah, I
Jen Dugard 15:15
think I knew I wasn't staying in Stoke.
I you know, when
Speaker 2 15:22
you're finishing school and your parents, like, you know, you're gonna go to uni, what are you going to do? And I didn't want to go to uni. But I applied anyway, just to do the thing that they wanted me to do. And I think I thought there was two things. One thing was, well, I'm not staying stuck. Anyway, I'm gonna go to Manchester. I'm going to go to London. So I might as well go to Australia, because who goes home every weekend? Anyway? No one does. You think you can, but no one does. And then also, if I go to Australia, everyone, I think I'm doing something cool. Even if I'm just working in a shop. And my parents don't have to say, oh, no, she's working in the shop down the road. They're like she's in Australia. So there was kind of a way out that didn't feel like I wasn't doing either what was expected of me or just doing nothing?
Speaker 1 16:07
When you move to Australia with it? Was it in the intention that you were just going to live there forever or was like, I'm doing a year backpacking? Work Experience. I'll be back soon.
Speaker 2 16:17
It was never the year backpacking. Like I didn't come with a backpack again, when
Unknown Speaker 16:22
you're not a backpacker. I'm not a
Speaker 2 16:23
or a camper. No. How would I survive in a hostel? Like, I'd be like, Guys, this is not okay. I can hear you talking. Now. You're breathing like, Please be quiet. So I travelled a little bit before I got here. So mom had a friend who was living in New Mexico. So I went to New Mexico, then I went to New Zealand. And then I came to Sydney. So I thought, oh, yeah, I'm doing doing the travel thing. But there was never really the I'm coming to Sydney. And then I'm gonna go travel there was I'm coming to Sydney. I'm gonna live here for a year. I do think in the back of my mind, I was like, there's nothing to go back to. And I say that with love for my family, because obviously, I could have gone back to my family. But for me, as a young woman wanting to take that next step, there was nothing to go home for. So I think deep down, I knew that I wasn't going back. And if I did go back, I was kind of like with the caveat of I can get into uni now because I have life experience.
Speaker 1 17:23
And stories today. Yes. Yeah. All right. So you did a bit of traveling before you landed in Sydney. Did you have a plan when you got here? Like you had mentioned at family here? So you did you have like a kinda like a little bit of a security that, you know, you had someone to base yourself with? Yeah, I did it staying in a hostel?
Speaker 2 17:42
No, I did not say I stayed actually stayed with my uncle. That work. That was the camera. He's passed away since but he was a camera operator. And I knew I needed to go get a job. So I did that. But I also knew I wanted to get out and onto TV sets. And he took me I think the first set I worked on was the set of Better Homes and Gardens. And my desire to get into film from their head or film and TV had kind of switched from the acting side of things to Well, I just want to get on a set and figure out what I want to do. So I spent time working Yeah, on whatever sets he was on, which was mostly Better Homes and Gardens. And then I had a boyfriend at the time who I met a few months after being in Australia and his next door neighbor worked on all sites, the Australian drama. So then so it was like Better Homes and Gardens. Okay, now how do I get onto this set of all sites and when I was on the set of Better Homes and Gardens, I basically followed the camera system around he was kind of a hot guy, so But no, I was fascinated by the camera side of things. And I didn't want to do hair and makeup like I probably was. I was never a girly girl and whether that's just what that felt like. But yeah, I just got as much work experience as I possibly could when I came to Australia and film and back to your first question was my bass was with my uncle and I stayed there for about six months I think before I did move into share accommodation. Not about packet.
Speaker 1 19:21
Yeah, all right. Um, so how long did you work kind of film and TV? And you know, how did you end up where you want to know like you're in fitness? Like that's quite a change, you know, from working in that film and TV industry with like camera operators. And yeah, like you kind of you were looking at a system and a runner kind of thing is that?
Speaker 2 19:39
Yeah, so in film, you have a person that does like take one take two and yeah, and marks this scene. And then you have a focus puller and the focus puller stands next to the camera operator and the camera operators job is to point look through the camera and to point the camera, but the focus pullers job is to go Okay, so the person that's supposed to be in focus is now what walking towards me. So you've got to know that now there are three foot now there are two foot and keep them in focus. So until they actually turn the dial. Yeah, and that's what you did. Yeah, but you can't see that it's is or isn't in focus, oh, you just got to judge the distance and know that that is the right focal distance.
Sarah 20:14
So it's quite intuitive then.
Speaker 2 20:17
It was really cool. Like I really enjoyed that part of Yeah, I guess, getting good at judging those distances and reacting on the fly. You do spend a lot of time marking the floor though. So you know where those distances actually. But I spent five years working in film and I went down to Melbourne, I slept on the floor of a friend's Cafe like in their spare room with surrounded by like, polystyrene cups, because I was so determined to get into the film industry. And there was this film being shot and I, they wouldn't pay me to go, I had to be there as a local if I wanted to do the job. So I was like, Sure, I'll just stay where I can do what I can to to do the work. I did a lot of free work. So a lot of cups of tea got a lots and lots of, you know, just doing whatever I could do to be on set. But I came up to, you know, five years in, I probably spent three years being paid for what I was doing. A year and a half not being paid was working doing other things.
Jen Dugard 21:17
And
Speaker 2 21:19
I just started to wonder whether that's what I wanted to do. I'd met Ben, by that time we met working on a film set. And it started to become more and more parent, like if we were going to stay together. Can't have kids in both being for all you can, but it's really hard. Like there's nannies, and they've been nannies there from 6am until eight o'clock, because if you're on a film set, and it's got to get done. It's what people like with all due respect to the film industry. No one is saving a life yet. Yeah. Yeah, like it's like the overtime is expected above a note like the amount of times I saw people, you know, Miss anniversary dinners or miss a child's thing or not be able to go somewhere because it was life or death that we finished this scene tonight. And I do understand this copious amounts of money when you're when you're filming things, but that just started to not feel right to me. And at a similar time, I you know, my background was gymnastics, but I didn't I hadn't trained at all since being in Australia that five years, probably I think I started training. Definitely when I came here at 18. I stopped doing everything until I was probably about 1819 Probably about three, four years. I didn't do any
Speaker 1 22:36
conceive of that. You're the crazy person that gets up at like five in the morning every day.
Speaker 2 22:40
Well, I was gonna work in film. But yeah, I didn't do anything. But I think I also had no body image stuff going on at all, like avoided that my whole life had no self awareness around body image. But I found myself.
Jen Dugard 22:59
I started going to the gym around that
Speaker 2 23:02
23 22 23 Maybe a bit younger. And then I moved over to the eastern suburbs when I started when I was trying to remember why but I moved over to the east.
Jen Dugard 23:16
And
Speaker 2 23:19
I started to do a fitness first boot camp. Danna, could you beach and I was like, I can do this. I can tell people what to do. And my brain was already thinking maybe I want to get out of film. So I then went up to Fitness First one I platinum when it first opened. So I was one of those like, members before the gym has even opened the door. And then I had a personal trainer. And throughout doing boot camp, and having a personal trainer of my own and thinking about leaving the industry, the film industry. I then decided to do my Cert three and four to become a boot camp instructor. And then I realized how much they got paid. And I was like fuck that. I'm not standing on the beach for 30 bucks when I can earn 60 to 100 bucks in a warm gym.
Speaker 1 24:07
Well, that makes sense. What made you suddenly start exercising though, like at 23. And like, you know, to the point you were getting a personal trainer, a fancy new gym and all that kind of stuff. You know?
Speaker 2 24:19
I don't know exactly what I do know is I had a couple of friends. So I worked in a music shop when I was that was how I paid for my life when I wanted to be in film but I wasn't in film full time I worked in a music shop and I there was two girls in there. One of them was a really good friend of mine and we we kind of parted ways a few years ago, but there was the two women I was working with and they talked nonstop about it was like you know the Weight Watchers the point system. No. And I'm not saying that that was why I started going to the gym but for someone that grew up with no awareness of my body at all like even at 18 Nothing In 19 20, you know, whatever. But I was suddenly in this was I suddenly, I've never really thought about what got me into a gym. But I know at that time I was with other females that were always talking about what food they were going with that was going into their mouth and always talking about their weight. And somehow throughout that period, I ended up in the gym, okay. But I also kind of look back and go, it was inevitable to come from a gymnastics background. I was always going to do I always like to think of it as you know, your parents instill good food habits into you do good movement, and then at some point, you're going to rebel against all eight, all the McDonald's, eat all the shit, not do the exercise, go out, you know, drink, take drugs, whatever you're going to do. But then you'll come full circle, because you've given that that grounding. When I see my son by all the sugar from the shots, I'm like, fuck at some some point, it'll come full circle, and he will be okay.
Unknown Speaker 25:59
Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 1 26:01
I just think it's interesting, because like your promo, you know, I'll think I imagine a lot of the motivation, or if you're kind of businesses under is trying to establish what drives people to come back to exercise. Yeah. Wondering if there was a link
Unknown Speaker 26:17
centered? Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1 26:20
So you went and did cert three and four. Yep. And you said that was or like boot camp stuff.
Speaker 2 26:27
That's what I thought I wanted to do. Yeah, very quickly and learned that my personal trainer got paid way more than the bootcamp instructor said. And so my personal trainer at the time, became my mentor. So back in the day, you could do so three, and I did that face to face. And then you could do your cert four and start working as a personal trainer, as long as you're on the gut under the guidance of a mentor while you're doing that certificate form. And he was, he gave me a lot of really good business skills, I'd already grown up. So the audio books in my dad's car, were all the Zig Ziglar, John Demartini, Jim Rowan, like all the old school business people, which now I'm doing that to my children, with all the audio, listen to this, it'll be good for you
Unknown Speaker 27:10
to listen to later be to Manchester for your
Speaker 2 27:15
But there was a lot of business business audio CDs, so I knew. So you know, the film journey was good. And the reasons to get out, you know, because of family, we're potentially good, although we weren't there yet. But I also got frustrated, because in film, it doesn't matter how good you are at your job. If either the work is not available, or somebody wants their best friend to do the job, you don't get the job. So I remember spending a lot of time like I would go through there was a book called The production book, not stage anymore. It's the production board, and had all the lists of all the director of photography's the phone numbers in there. And I'd call them a call every single one trying to get work, just cold calling cold calling, you know, sometimes maybe they'd know if someone through someone so I could name drop, but I did a lot of cold calling. And I could see people that had been in the industry longer than me and not moving as fast as I wanted to move. So I think I realized that there was this seat like ceiling, one on the availability of work to on how much people would pay me. And three, I couldn't just go out and make my own work. So there was a few things that that kind of just didn't sit right. And when I went into personal training, my mentor had me on a sliding scale. So it was like, okay, so he paid my rent for the first three months, or you get a rent free period. And then he paid that. But in return for that I didn't get all the money that the personal training client paid me. So what
Speaker 1 28:46
does that mean? The rent free period. So rent space in
Speaker 2 28:49
the gym? Yeah, in a fitness first. So I was in a fixed first and you pay a certain amount of money per week to be in the gym.
Sarah 28:54
That's what you meant he was paying your rent on your apartment. I was like,
Speaker 2 28:58
no. But he sent me these goals. And it was like if you if you do five clients a week, you get paid, and I got paid 20 bucks as client? I don't know, I can't remember. You know, but then there was a maximum out and it was might have been 30 sessions per week. And I that was then maybe getting $50 Out of the 75 that he was getting paid from the clients. So to me that was just like, Well, why wouldn't I get there as quick as I could. And I could see how if I put in more effort, and I was, you know, making connections on the gym floor, and I was committed to what I wanted to get done, I could get the results. And then I knew that that situation wasn't gonna last forever anyway. And he actually he left the gym, which was supposed to be a 12 month mentorship, and he left at nine months, which at the time suited me because by nine months, I was like, that's been great. I would have honored the relationship but he left and I was like sweet. Now I can charge what I want. I can work as much as I want and I can take it all home. So that was way better.
Speaker 1 29:58
So how long did you Then work as a personal trainer.
Speaker 2 30:03
I was up at Bondo platinum for until until basically until Molly was born, say two months before he No, two weeks before he was born. I stopped working out there. So from 2016 to 2000. He was born in 2018. Yeah, it was supposed to be four weeks, but he was two weeks early
Sarah 30:23
2008 in fact.
Speaker 1 30:31
Okay, do you want to do that? Okay, good. All right. I want to put a pause on the personal training, just for a minute before we dive off into how you then made your own business. Yeah, became who you are. And go back to when you said you met Ben. Yeah, when the movie sounds so glamorous, wasn't it? Only because obviously, he's your husband and the father of your children, and you've had this relationship develop alongside your business. So can you tell us a little bit more about how you met him and real that came from?
Speaker 2 31:04
We? He's a lot. He's in lighting. So he's a he's a gaffer, for anyone that doesn't know film term. So the head lighting guy, he wasn't the headlining guy then. And the camera department. I needed some power. So I asked this guy. Can I please have some our lane like whatever? Yeah, we were working on Farscape. I don't know if you remember that. Sci Fi random sci fi show. Jim Jim Henderson. The Muppets guide. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we worked on that film for, I can't remember if it was three months or six months. But he pretty much flat out refused to talk to me the whole time. And, you know, when you like, you're attracted to someone, and then they don't want to talk to you. And at first, it's like, okay, well, this is fine. And in the end, I was like, You're a fucking dick. You won't even talk to me. So by the time the film ended, I think I was just like, not over. I'm done. And then we got together at the wrap party and his, the wrap party is the thing that happens at the end of every job. And here's kind of reasoning was was I just wanted to be professional while I was at work, and I didn't want people talking. And I was like, okay, whatever, whatever. Okay, fine. But you got together then we did.
Unknown Speaker 32:18
Yep. And that was when
Speaker 2 32:24
probably three years before Marley was born. We did everything relatively slight. We met each other. We got together, we moved in together. After a year, we got engaged. After two years, we got married after three years. And then maybe that was When Marley was born. Or maybe it was we moved in after I don't know, it was something like that.
Speaker 1 32:44
And so Ben has he's still in lighting he's still working in industry is
Speaker 2 32:48
after all the shit things I've just said about film. He's head of his department, though, but he still has to, you know, find the the Director of Photography has to employ the gaffer. Right? So there's still someone,
Unknown Speaker 32:59
you know, still network driven.
Jen Dugard 33:00
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 33:03
But you'd made that leap over school? How did that go? When like you left, because you know, the hours that you described in the film set and the commitment that it takes, you know, and then you're a personal trainer, and probably also working very, very early in the morning. And how did you guys keep the relationship going?
Speaker 2 33:20
I think it was fine. Like in film, you get up early. So really, the transition to being a PT versus film except I could come home, have a nap and then then go back to work if I wanted to. I was he just had to work the whole day. So, you know, I was what early 20s? I don't feel like there was a big
Speaker 3 33:37
shift to I don't think there was a I was like, okay, cool. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 33:43
All right. View and then the beginning, the beginning, the easy beginning, and then we'll cover the middle and the current. Cool. All right. So you have left film you're working in PT, like a big, big box gym? Yep. What made you step away from that? It was purely having
Speaker 2 34:05
Marley. Although I do know that when I became a trainer, I wanted to run a business, not just be a PT, and I say the word just with hesitation. Because there's nothing wrong with being what you want to be and a personal trainer is has so much responsibility. And you can do so much good in the world. But I knew when I moved out of film and into personal training, that there was a business that I wanted to build. I didn't know what it was, but I knew I wanted to build something. And then Marley was born in 2008. And I had left like I'd kind of said, you know, can I come back in three months timeframe and come back in six months time but I think similar to when I left the UK, like there was this, I could go back if I wanted to. There was a safety net, but I never really wanted to go back to being a personal trainer in a big box gym again, I wanted to start my own business. And I did that so I started a blog. When Marely was after Marley was born, and it was called body Beyond Baby, back then it was the the journey of how to get my body back, which is not what I believe in now at all. However, if anyone wants to look at that blog, it does still exist. It's body going baby.blogspot.com. And it was all about how am I going to get my body back, you know, all the DEXA scans all the way myself and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 35:29
But I feel like that was really cultural at the time. That was well, because our we had babies running about the same time. Yeah, my first was 2007. So I just feel like that was always the focus. And it was, I mean, it's probably still is, but I just don't buy into any of that. Yeah, but you know, it's always in the celebrity mind. You know, like how whoever got the body back like six weeks after giving birth? And you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2 35:51
it is. And I guess the what preceded that was, you know, when I started working with a personal trainer, and he was amazing. But in hindsight, there's certain things that he guided me to do from a nutrition perspective that definitely instilled as well as the female friendships I had at the time, instilled a disordered eating pattern. So when I got married before I had Marley, I was 49 kilos. I don't even think like I could weigh 14. Like, even if I was like, zero body fat. Now, I couldn't wait 49 kilos,
Sarah 36:28
my 15 year old son weighs 54kgs. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 36:30
the
Speaker 2 36:32
the getting my body back was preceded by basically an eating disorder that was not diagnosed. And I think it's really important that in the industry, we talk about the fact that the things that we say to people and that assumption that that a woman wants to get a body back or an assumption that even a woman without a child wants to lose weight. And that's why she's in the gym. Because, you know, I actually don't know if when I walked into the gym as a in my early 20s. If I wanted to lose weight, I cannot remember I've got journals, so I should probably I could look it up. But I know that that's what my trainer gave to me. And I was guided like all the strength training and stuff was really good. Like I thrived on the strength training, but the nutritional guidelines of eating less, eat the low fat yogurt, only half the sandwich for afternoon tea. led to standing in Woolies comparing the fucking back of rice crackers to see which one had less calories. So having a baby there was already this. I'd been smaller than I'd ever been before. And I enjoyed
Sarah 37:49
it. And that was in prep for the wedding.
Speaker 2 37:52
It wasn't in prep for the wedding. But I think I don't know what, like, women just fucking lose weight before they get married. And I actually I know that when I was already tiny in the lead up to the wedding, I cannot remember being on a diet. But I know I lost weight. But I also remember going Ah, that's good. I've lost weight.
Speaker 1 38:11
So there's I'm one of those people that just naturally loses it. Yeah, but clearly
Speaker 2 38:15
you don't fucking eat properly anyway. So maybe you've just forgot to eat more than you usually do. So then when I had Marley, there was definitely the I'd been in the best shape of my life, whatever that means, or what I thought was that. And then there was the desire to get back to that, like get that body back after having him. Yeah, so that was the blog, and all of the the weight loss and I look back now and I'm just like, yeah, it's fascinating. But then the blog became the business. Okay. So from misguided misguided roots, I thought I'd tell other women how they could get their body.
Speaker 1 39:05
Well, how, first of all, so that you know, that's a huge what's technology you're like in a mum focused industry? Like your first baby, your first pregnancy, your first labor, your first birth is massive. Like, yeah, it's one of the biggest things in the world that will change who you are. The concept of going back to who you were before, is always hard. Like, whether that's body or personality or mindset shift or whatever. But how did you find that pregnancy and the changing body and the experience of being pregnant and then mentally and emotionally and that transition to motherhood? Like,
Speaker 2 39:40
you know, I don't think I really was super aware. So I was 27. I had a relatively easy pregnancy. I trained the whole way through. I had had a history of like depression in my late teens, probably due to being on the pill, which I don't I can't say that That's the whole truth. But I feel like that was some of the truth now.
Unknown Speaker 40:05
Either Yeah,
Speaker 2 40:06
yeah. So I think that I did not have any where near i No, I did not have anywhere near the self awareness that I have now. So I was 27, I had a baby, the pregnancy was relatively easy. The birth was relatively easy. I mean, not super easy, but I didn't think that it was hard. Like I had a ventous delivery and got told my pelvic floor was, was too strong, which I thought that was a good thing back then. But I didn't, I almost just went, I'm gonna have a baby. I'll keep training the way that I am training. I did drop my weights a little bit, but I didn't understand any any what I did now. But I just figured I would just keep doing what I was doing. And I had an awareness that maybe I would have or experienced postnatal depression because I had depression in my teenage years. But I didn't. And I was the mom going. This is easy. Malia was three months old, he was a sleeper. So I used to go to like, I thought I knew how to make a baby sleep. Like I had no concept that I just had a child that slept just he was Yep. And so when he was three months old, I was on this journey to get my body back and then start a business because I was like, motherhood is just fucking easy. Like, let's start, let's do something else. Which is interesting, because I think my whole world just fell apart two years later, but the first two years of being a mom, where I say the word easy with not hesitancy. But it wasn't hard. I know, it wasn't hard. And I didn't have postnatal depression. And he did sleep. And I did start a business.
Unknown Speaker 41:52
Which set you on your path to where you are now?
Jen Dugard 41:54
Yeah. Thankfully, it was easy.
Speaker 1 41:59
So your blog, but to be on baby? What led you to just start writing the blog? Like, where did that come from? Because I know, you know, you're a big journaler. Is that something you'd always done? Yeah. And you just sort of then published your thoughts, or where was that inspiration?
Speaker 2 42:17
So I think so I've journaled my whole life as journals. Somewhere. I do your direct to me in the worst day. I could always put words on a page. That's never been hard for me. And
Unknown Speaker 42:38
I
Speaker 2 42:41
I'm trying to remember whether I knew I wanted to start the business before the blog. I think it was back in the days when blogs had just kind of started. And having a business mind. I don't know, I can't remember whether the blog came so that I could start to become known in the space of working with moms or the blog came and then the business. I know that the blog came before the business, but I can't remember if there was a the blog came as a reason knowing that I was going to start the business or whether it evolved into that. Yeah, because you mentioned
Speaker 1 43:10
a few times you always knew you want to start your business. Yeah. PT in the gym. Yeah, but you weren't sure what that would look like. So do you feel like it was just an accident that it was focused on mums? Because you just becoming a mum yourself? Or was it a deliberate? I've looked at all the aspects of
Unknown Speaker 43:28
Oh, gym definitely wasn't.
Speaker 1 43:30
I'm a mum myself, so I can identify so I'm gonna go down that route? Or was it like a analysis of like, there's something lacking in this area? I'm gonna fill it or was it just your kind of preoccupation of, I'm a mum, I want to get my body back. I'm a PT.
Unknown Speaker 43:46
I could sandwich these things together. Let's go.
Speaker 2 43:48
I think that came I think that I definitely didn't sit down and do this analysis of all the different things that wasn't, wasn't it? And I even know I don't even know sometimes I will fuck, I'll just do it. I don't, I don't actually care. I don't do a lot of analysis within my business like I do, and I don't, I don't do something because I think that it is going to be successful, there needs to be a reason for doing it to create a success. And I think back then I was naturally on this journey to get my body back. And I was going back into the gym. And what I became aware of was that I was surrounded by a lot of women that didn't either have the awareness of of moving their body and I didn't have the awareness of safe movement back then. But I knew enough for my mental health and my physical health or maybe was it my physical well being or not my fucked up physical health of getting my body back so whole? Yeah, anyway. I knew that I needed time on my own to refund me. Even though motherhood was easy, but refund that part of my identity that was in the gym. Yeah, and again, now I look at that. And there's so many different thoughts and feelings that go around that. Was that a healthy reason to be in the gym? I definitely had conversations and part of the reason for starting the business was because so you could be the best money you can be for your child. And now I'm like, Well, no, you get to be the best person you can be for yourself.
Unknown Speaker 45:17
Which makes you a good person for your child. Yeah, but
Speaker 2 45:19
it shouldn't be. There's so many mums out there now that are still I'll go to the gym. Because if I go to the gym, then that means that I can be the best mum I can be. Yes, it does. But there's so much more than that, in that you're a human, you're a woman, you have the right to do nice things for yourself that you enjoy. Yeah, so I knew that I fell into a space where lots of women didn't understand what to do in the gym. And I saw a gap. And I didn't really want to go back to a big box gym. And at the time, I thought that I could run training sessions with Marley with me. And it would be easy. And I could just do that in the park. Okay, so I did.
Speaker 1 46:08
So you birth the baby, and then you birthed the business? Yep. And how did that go? How was the birth of the business? So you find the birth of Marley easy. And the pregnancy easy? How was the kind of pregnancy period of building a business and the birth of a business in comparison,
Speaker 2 46:24
I don't think that was hard either. Like I don't remember finding it hard. And I remember not having massive expectations on myself. So I had a, you know, a three month old, three month old baby. And, you know, I went out and started giving flyers out in Centennial Park and found a spot and you know, I had a decent group of women that wanted to train and I bet even back then, though, I did things like I would go to the early childhood center and do talk. So there was, you know, with the business stuff that I knew, I knew that I wanted to become know, once I knew what I wanted to do, I knew that I needed to become known for what I wanted to do. So right from the get go again, I was on a mission to become known as the go to trainer for mums in the eastern suburbs. And that's what I did. So, again, I don't remember it being difficult. Yeah. I do. Also remember though, for the first few years, it was I want to run this business. And I just need to make sure that my child's once I realized that I couldn't do the business with him with me. And because he wasn't like he's a great kid always has been like a chilled out kid. But I decided that I wanted to give my full attention to the moms in the group. So my financial goals were that he could be in daycare, two days a week or three mornings a week or whatever it was. And that didn't cost us money. Yeah, so it was like that hobby, basic business to begin with. Or maybe it wasn't even never a hobby, but it was a slow with. What was like being a mom, it's like, it's got to be a part time job when they're little Right. Like even now I do it. I mean, we try and work full time hours whilst being full time moms. Yeah.
Speaker 1 48:09
All right. So what was your can you remember your first Body Beyond Baby session? Like it centennial?
Speaker 2 48:15
No, but I do remember not knowing what I know now. Yeah. So one of the things I say in my course, to new trainers is there's going to be so many things that you're going to learn that you're going to go holy fuck does that mean? I've just been doing the wrong thing the whole time. And you know, permission to just know that you're doing the best job you could do with the information you had right then.
Speaker 3 48:37
And that's what I now know that I didn't know.
Speaker 1 48:43
Is it Brene Brown that says do what you do until you know better and then do better?
Unknown Speaker 48:47
Probably? Yeah, I feel
Unknown Speaker 48:48
like it's one of
Speaker 2 48:50
Yeah, I did figure out early on that I didn't know enough. And I did figure out early on that the courses for trainers at that time were not. They were they covered pregnancy pretty well, but they definitely didn't cover postpartum. So I discovered and I don't even know how I discovered them. But Jo Murdoch runs the physiotherapy clinic in Bondi Junction. So really, really early on. I went to meet her to go, I don't know enough, I need to send my clients to you and I need to learn from you. So I was one of the first trainers to start to work hand in hand with a women's health now called pelvic health physiotherapist
Speaker 3 49:34
and start to really know better
Speaker 1 49:38
Okay, so that was that the first kind of training we did in one specific fitness.
Speaker 2 49:43
I done a pre and postnatal course three things First, which ticked the box, you've got to tick the insurance box you need to have that certificate to train mums, or train pre and postnatal women. But I just I was like, I don't know where else to go to get information. Shouldn't there was nothing there's there's a wonderful educator called Jenny Burrell out of the UK. So I was watching out for her courses when she came to Australia. But there was just nothing nowhere to really learn better. So I went to see Jo and yeah, a lot of my education over the years have been and she still supports us today. So yeah,
Speaker 1 50:18
okay. So that kind of then informed how you train the mums in that postpartum.
Speaker 2 50:25
Yeah, like I built built all of our systems and concepts on what I learned from seeing a women's health physiotherapist from St. Joe. Thank you so much for being with us for this episode today. As always, it's been an absolute pleasure to have one more conversation that takes us closer to our goal of safe and effective exercise for all women at every stage of motherhood. If you've enjoyed what you've heard, please make sure you hit follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and rate and review so more people can join us next time. For further information about anything we've talked about in this episode, head to Jen dugard.com forward slash podcast. And if you want to connect with me in person, I would love to hear from you over at my Instagram at gender guard. Thank you for your voice in this space. Have a beautiful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
