Jen Dugard 0:03
If you're listening to this podcast in real time, you may or may not know that we're both celebrating our podcast launch and the launch of our brand new moms safe trainer offering. If you're a trainer that works with moms and wants to be known as the go to trainer for moms in your area, you need to head to www dot gender guard.com forward slash moms safe trainer and find out more. I'll see you there. Welcome to the mum at safe movement podcast. I'm your host, Jen Dugard. I'm so excited that you're here and now part of this very important movement for change in the way mums are looked after in the fitness industry. In 20 24.3 5 million women use our gyms and fitness facilities in comparison to 3.5 million men. Further to this in 2016, the ABS reported that 77% of women over the age of 15 in Australia would become mothers, this is 3.3 5 million mothers are 42.7% of a personal trainers potential clientele, yet our fitness certificates don't teach us enough. And mums themselves received very little, if any education about how to move safely and effectively. I am here to change that. This podcast is an accumulation of over 16 years in the fitness industry a decade of working face to face with mums themselves, and teaching 1000s of trainers in my safe return to exercise certification. And most recently, bringing mums and trainers together around the mums safe brand. This podcast is the next step into raising our voices and bringing mums and the trainers that work with them into the arena to achieve our mission of safe and effective exercise for women at every stage of motherhood. Let's dive in.
Sarah 1:58
Okay, so that's the kind of early years of what to be on baby. Do you want to tell us a little bit about how would you be on Baby became a toddler? Keep on with the analogy like how did that next step go?
Jen Dugard 2:11
So when we go I made a bunch of mistakes like I thought that I wanted to license or franchise body be on baby. I thought that I wanted to grow it to more locations with contractors. I knew I knew a step like I'd done a business some in 2000 things 2013 I did a it's a business kind of course called key person of influence. So that that really built on my awareness that I wanted to be the go to person for moms in the East. But then I wanted to start going beyond that. And I wrote a book called How to love your body as much as your baby. Decision
Sarah 3:02
while raising children running a business, yeah. Funny People do it.
Jen Dugard 3:08
Sidenote, I got up at 3am for 30days to write the book. But anyway, you can do anything for 30 days, right? I don't advise doing that very often. But so yeah, I thought I wanted to I wanted to have the McDonald's of mum focus fitness businesses. And I look back at some of the procedures and policies and things I have scripts. All the people that worked for me I had scripts, they had to say the right words, if they didn't say the right words, I'd mark them out of town as to how many trainers that didn't know what my contract is. So I knew that I needed systems and I knew that it needs to work properly. And I knew all of that stuff, then I found exhausting. It's not exhausting. When it's like well, I want to achieve this thing, right? So you put all the things into place to make that happen. But throughout the journey, there was a couple of things that happened like one I started to try and step out of the business to work on the business more. Now, you know, back then I was very ego driven. So if I have lots of trainers and lots of locations, I must be successful. And you know, when when you say when people say oh, you're not working in the business anymore, you're like, No, I'm working on the business and I've got this this business. The downside to that is you're still putting the bums on seats, you're still doing everything in the background, you're just not showing up to deliver the session. But the delivery the session is where you get paid. So if you've now got somebody delivering your session, and even if they're not getting paid what you were getting paid yourself when you did everything. You're definitely not getting paid as much as you were when you were doing yourself and I know that there's people want to grow businesses and I'm, I'm very aware of guiding people as to what is right or wrong or what they could or should or whatever may do. But for me, I ended up in a situation where my business was turning over a couple $100,000 All this money coming in. I was not delivering pretty much any of the sessions. So when you lose contact with your clients to there's a much bigger burn like churn of clients coming through because the contractors don't care as much as you, they're not maintaining relationships, not maintaining the relationships, not bringing clients in. So if they were bringing clients in, and if you've got a contractor that's bringing people in, keep hold of that person. And also they weren't driven. So if I think back to my fitness first days, I was I put some of my contractors on a sliding scale, so that way, but the mistake I made was, well, when your classes are full, you get paid this much. But it wasn't when you bring those people into the class. So I was filling up my classes, paying them the top, the top amount of money, then the clients would leave, then I'd put more people in pay the top amount of money, and then there's very little left for me at the end. So I think I went two years where my turnover was over $200,000. And I took home about $14,000 in my tax return,
Sarah 5:57
well, then you are working fucking more than I remember that. Yeah.
Jen Dugard 6:05
And I mean, the dumb thing is so silly that I had to learn that two years in a row. But so there started to become this awareness of, well, if I'm not delivering my business, I want to do it different. So that's when I went down the road of licensing or franchising. I spent a lot of money, getting a license pack ready to get out into the world, I spent money on carving up the country to turn it into territories. And the person that I wanted, she's still one of our she's one of our mom saved trainers today. And I wanted I really wanted her to be my first licensee, and we got to the end of this big conversation and she just basically went, Jen, I want to do what you do. And I want to know what you know, but I want to do my own thing. And I was like, okay, okay, but also at the same time I was having this shit show of managing contractors not earning any money. So I was like, What do I fuckin even want? Licensees do, I want to go down that road. And I did a, I was at the women's health and fitness summit in Melbourne. And there was a woman there, this is a couple of years later, but it all connects the dots all connect, called Molly Galbraith. She runs a business called girls going strong in America. And something that she said, On that day was build a table big enough for everyone. And this was through a time where I think, you know, the, the affiliates and, and we can get into that. And we'd already started doing that. And I'd already discount, like, got rid of the licensing, but I was still trying to give people little pockets of the country to work in. And what I realized by doing that was that I was one creating competition between people, which I don't believe in like one of my biggest, like mottos or values is collaboration over competition. And I was saying there's a maximum capacity of trainers that I can work with. So the table is only so big. So if I merge all those couple of years together and go, I had someone telling me that they wanted to know everything that I wanted, that I knew, but they wanted to build their own thing. I didn't, didn't want to manage people didn't really want to work with contractors. And I didn't want to build a table that only had X amount of seats. Then I started to think about other ways that I could reach trainers and first came safe returned to exercise, which is the certification. And then came the body be on baby affiliate team, which has no mindset.
Sarah 8:33
And somewhere in there, you had your second child. Yeah, before that. Yeah, I still want to be on baby. You were in the park. Yeah, we're still running the
Jen Dugard 8:42
sessions. Yeah. And I took six months off. When I had no idea. I knew that I didn't. Actually, I mean, I started working on while he was three months old, because it was easy. But I knew I wanted to take six months off when I had India. I do remember writing a program in labor though, just thinking I've got to write this program for this person before. And I had a contract to work for me. And this was probably why I had so many, like scripts and things because this contract also was amazing in that she gave me six months off. But she taught my clients things in ways that I didn't teach them. So that was a really big learning for me to go well if I want to put someone into my business. And I don't want them to do it. Like I want them to bring their spark and their personality, but I don't want them to contradict the things that I'm saying in the way that I'm saying them so that's where all that kind of procedure writing and script writing came from. Like a measure. Well, you have to write you can't go to one McDonald's and buy a burger and walk in another one. It looks like a fucking sandwich. Can you be like this is not McDonald's or which one is Migdol like which one's the right way? And I think that's a really good you know, takeaway for anyone that's wanting to build a business. It's not just in one location, is that you need consistency, yeah. Or even is in one location, but you're bringing new people in there. There has to be consistency and ways that things get done properly. Huh?
Sarah 10:00
Yeah, I guess in that time period, that's how I met you was rocked up with my second son who was born in 2010. Yeah. And I think I started training with you like, march 2011.
Jen Dugard 10:17
Yeah. So you must have started training as I came back because India and Archer are the same kind of age. And
Sarah 10:23
yeah, yeah. And that's where I remember much like you said, like, I was at one of those early childhood motherhood group sessions. You didn't come along and like, you know, do a sales pitch. But there was another mum there who was like, Oh, I went to like a free session at Centennial Park, and they have nannies merely after your baby can go and exercise for 45 minutes with other mums. She come along and get free sessions. So like whole heap of us at this, like early childhood mother group, can we just sit around and just being like, Oh, why is he crying? All that stuff. We went to Centennial Park. And it became, like, such a consistent part of my life, like twice a week, made up there and my opposite girls, it became like a social thing that came like our mom's group that moved on to that. And then we'd go for coffee afterwards. Did that for years. And that's how I met you. Yeah. And I know, you've kind of said like, roundabout that time, that must have been when you'd already started, like, exploring stuff with Jo. And because I just remember, it was like the first exercise that I'd ever done. where anybody asked me about my childbirth experience, or anyone asked me if my pelvic floor was okay, where someone talks about pelvic floor exercises, and transverse abdominus muscles, and stuck fingers in my stomach. And you know, that was just like, completely eye opening to me. And I think you were the first person that ever asked me any of those questions. And that was including health professionals, like your six week checkup with a doctor, all that kind of stuff?
Jen Dugard 11:49
None of it? Well, that's good, because that was a long time ago.
Sarah 11:54
Well, that's what I mean. So that's like, you know, it would seem to me fairly quickly. Yeah, I did. It was quick, that you made those changes and implemented them across the business. Yep. Yeah. So it would have been 2011.
Jen Dugard 12:05
Yeah, I reckon I started working with Jo straightaway. Yeah. 2000 might have been 2009 2010. Max, but it was before India was born. Yeah. Okay.
Sarah 12:16
Yeah. And then I don't even think I had a gap. Like, I think actually, yeah. And then I came back. You must have had a bit. Yeah, no, I did. I did have a gap. So no, I didn't train with you. And I was pregnant with my third with tabby. But I came back after I'd had Tabitha. And then I was coming back with Archer and yeah, for mainly for the sanity of having a nanny that would give me an hour for us twice
Jen Dugard 12:38
a week and you surf on a Saturday with all three of them. Yeah. For
Sarah 12:41
the Mad fitness challenges. Yeah.
Jen Dugard 12:44
But it was always you're always one of those examples of like, if if I sit again, like back then it's like if Sarah can do it. Everyone can do it. And then now I go, but Sarah could do it. And you could have one child and not be able to do it. And that's okay. But back then it was like, well, if she can do it, you can all do it.
Sarah 13:04
Well, I guess you know, this after the sessions were usually when we were training for like one of those. What was it called the stampede or any of those? The mud runs, tough mums. That was the Saturday class. Yes, wasn't it? Yeah. And that was long into my journey yet. Like, I can honestly say the fittest I've ever been in my whole life pre or post any other babies was after I had Tabitha in 2012 training with you. Well, you were
Jen Dugard 13:28
you needed to pass physicals to get back into the army. Right. I've just joined the army. Yeah, that was my preparation. And we did that. And I remember you having to do sit-ups. Look, we can do them. It's not I wouldn't advise you doing it any other circumstance. And here are the things that we're going to do first before you do that, with that awareness that you have to pass that test.
Sarah 13:46
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard 13:51
I know, right. Yeah. Here I am. Again, having another one.
Sarah 13:58
Okay, so we talked about India. And that was your second pregnancy. Yeah. And was completely different, as I know from your experience with Marley, do you want to talk a little bit about that pregnancy that birth that kind of?
Jen Dugard 14:13
Yeah. Yeah, the one where I thought I had it all together, and then quickly was brought down back to back to Earth where I didn't have it all together. I don't remember the pregnancy being too different. But I do definitely know that their postpartum period was different. I still to this day, don't know. I think when you have a second child, no one tells you that you don't go in with the same reserves as the first one, which is should be fucking common sense, right? You're already sleep deprived. You're running around after a toddler. It's not gonna be the same as the first one. Yeah. But you don't realize how different it's going to be. And then the other thing I realized was that I did not know how to put children
Sarah 14:58
to sleep. To
Jen Dugard 15:02
the amazing mum than I thought I
Sarah 15:07
didn't have the magical power,
Jen Dugard 15:08
no. And I promptly went back to my mother's group and was like, I'm so sorry if I tried to tell any of you guys that I knew what to do, because clearly I don't my son is asleep, and my daughter is not. And the other thing for me was I because I had been aware of postnatal depression after Marley was born. And then it didn't happen. I was completely caught off guard the second time around when it did happen. So I think I took away that from that personally, when I'm working with any woman is, every pregnancy is different. Every birth experience is different, every motherhood experience is different. And each child, every child is having different. And sometimes you layer this layer of judgment on yourself when it's the second time because you feel like you should know what to do, even though you still don't know what to do. And you're still guessing because it's different. So she did not sleep ever. Like she, I don't think she slept a full night, we didn't have a full night's sleep until she was 18 months old. And I think that that's because we shipped her off somewhere for a night. But she was what the pediatrician called a overstimulated child. And I also remember being told to stay in a dark room with her for three days. So I did healthy, which this child needs to be not stimulated anymore. No shopping centers, know whatever, blah, blah, blah, stay in a room for three days. So I probably just took the break and just whatever, I was so tired, but that was like that period of exhaustion, postnatal depression. Like there are times when I look back, and I just go, thank goodness, like I had a good support around me because, you know, when you hear about people losing, like, I remember, like wanting to throw her across the room, like and putting her on the bed. And Ben, like quickly coming in and being with her, but, you know, for women that don't have that support system, and they're doing it on their own, then it's, it's yeah, it's not a good. You get how things can go rapidly wrong. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah 17:17
Okay. So your postnatal depression? Did When did you become aware that you've actually had it? Because I feel like you know, you because you have that awareness of it being a potential thing for you with your history with Marley that potentially you put things in place during your pregnancy in the early stages of him to be more aware of I think I
Jen Dugard 17:38
was just 27 and just didn't know shit.
Sarah 17:41
You're just totally different than the first one. The second one, you assumed it wasn't going to happen to you because you haven't had it before. And I was supermom, yeah. running your own business like living that world. You were in charge of like, oh, you're Oh, you had all your ducks in a row? Yeah, it was going well, but then you had the baby didn't sleep and the mood started to tank? Well, yeah. Do you remember when you realized there was something more going on?
Jen Dugard 18:05
I don't know that. I remember realizing I know my mum came out to help. I think Indie was a year old, maybe maybe a bit younger. And I just remember needing some extra support. I remember putting both kids in the bath fully clothed.
I yeah, I don't, honestly can't remember a specific time except from her birth onwards. Life was just hard. And I don't I remember the, you know, I don't feel it anymore. And now that now I know what it was like that just complete depletion of energy like that. Just overwhelming sadness. Like, I didn't have eight like, I just I have suffered anxiety in my life. But at that time, it wasn't an anxiety thing. I just, yeah, it was just really fucking hard. A lot of tears from everybody.
Sarah 19:07
And you were still running a business then?
Jen Dugard 19:09
Yeah. And I part of me feels like, through that time, the pilot, like the running the business kind of kept me going. Yep, there was there's been times later on where I wanted to walk away from the business because of what I was experiencing from an anxiety perspective. But at that time, I compartmentalize my worlds and I went out and I, I was, I actually was still doing early morning PT and I went out in the morning, so I would get up from from her being about six, eight months old. I'd get up early, go to work, do what I needed to do. And that was the way I coped because I didn't have my kids in the morning. Some like we had au pairs for a while and then my mom Mama's mum came over later on permanently but I coped with my world because I could go and be me from 6am Till lunchtime. Yeah.
Sarah 20:13
Yeah. Okay. And that's kind of a pattern you've still kept like you exercise in the morning. Yeah, thanks. Start your day.
Jen Dugard 20:22
Yeah, it isn't. I put it back now. Like I lost it for a while. And you know, when we were talking about the end of, you know, Body Beyond Baby in that iteration. Part of the reason for me selling the business was because at first I stopped doing early morning PT because it was out of alignment with what my children needed from me in the mornings. And it's really, yeah, like, I I remember us having conversations about moving to Bali. We mean to bother. And I was moving because it's so cold in Sydney. And then I was like, Maybe I just need to not stand outside in winter anymore.
But yeah, I eventually sold the business because I couldn't be what I needed to be for my children, having come out of that postnatal depression kind of time, but there was still a lot of shit.
Sarah 21:26
It's interesting, because knowing you know, and how you live your personal life and your business life, and then comparing it to what you said then which I think you said the word segmenting. Yeah, so you as a coping mechanism, maybe with postnatal depression, you're very much segmented your personal time, your business time and your family time. And then ultimately, that didn't work anymore, which led to selling the business, starting all these other businesses, and integrating all of it. So you've kind of gone on the sliding scale. Yeah, talk a little bit about like that segmentation of the business and the personal family. Yeah, why it changed.
Jen Dugard 22:04
I think I lost a lot of identity. Although I was saying before that I didn't, you know, becoming a mum was easy. I think after India was born, I definitely lost. With Marley, it was easy. And I had my identity. I've got my body back. And I did get back. Of course I did. And then India came along and everything was harder. And I definitely started segmenting. I was I had so many, you know, business goals that were wrapped up in ego and finances. And segmenting my business world was so easy. Like I could figure out where the children were going to be. And I could go run my business and be the fitness professional and be and, you know, build that be the go to fit Pro for mums. And it's funny that you say segmenting, and you said, personal life. Family. It's like there was the kids, there was the business, there was my training. There was my friends, and there was not room for my relationship.
Sarah 23:05
We're going okay, yeah. Because, yeah, that was a lot of change that whole period, you know, coming out of postnatal depression and all the changes you were making in bodybuilding baby, and then all the changes you were making in yourself, because you were also on a personal kind of development journey. I mean, you always have been, but I think that's from knowing you. I think that's when you really threw yourself into it. And then it was a marriage breakdown at the same time. Yeah, that was a lot going on. busy time. Yep. That's really when we bonded I think over our single parent teacher. Yeah,
Jen Dugard 23:46
holidays. And we like to mums do this way better than a mum and a dad.
Sarah 23:51
Or maybe just the dads of our children at that point.
Jen Dugard 23:56
Yeah, oh, me. Like I just, I think I was so driven to not ever need anyone that I set them up for failure. And I talk about, I used to talk about more because it was more relevant because it was timely relevant. But whenever I talk about the period that Ben and I spent apart, I have this huge awareness that I can only share from my perspective, and I try not to ever share his story because it's not mine to share and I actually don't know his story like I know what he's told me but I don't know his story. But I, you know, my parents separated when I was younger. I think a big part of not you know, yes, there was all this stuff going on with Indy and it left very little time for us as a couple. But I also think that I saw my mum, not struggle but not have choices because of the situation like my dad was always in control of the money. It's like he said, So No, even as kids, like, we would ask for something and nine times out of 10, he'd say no first. And then he might come back and say yes. Or I knew that if I wanted to ask for something, I need to put a case together. And it was like a business. But I knew that I never wanted to be in a situation where I couldn't do what I wanted to do based upon a man. Unfortunately, for Ben, I didn't consult him in that. I just decided that I was going to earn my money. And I was dedicated to growing my business, and never been in a position where it was like, it was almost like, well, if you leave, I'll be fine. So I'll set myself up for when you're going to leave, just in case you do. But then there's like the self fulfilling prophecy right? And definitely. And I remember him saying to me, once, you make it really hard for me to look after you, I don't know. And I was there. You know, the, no one can carry my shopping. No one opens, there's no one does that, like, I'll pay for my own things and all that shit that we do. And I think a lot of women still
Sarah 26:10
do that. Well, that's very much you and your masculine space, isn't it? Yeah. Leaving no space for your actual man. Yeah. To fill his masculine needs. Yeah. Yep. That's another wall. Okay. Yeah. So the segmentation, then, where you pretty much dealt with the kids dealt with your business dealt with your mental health, your personal training, all that kind of stuff? marriage breakdown, happy ending, happy ending? In that there was a period of separation, but then, yep, reuniting. But during that whole period, that's kind of when you built or evolved, let's say, the business that you have no. Where from the outside looking in, it is very much values based. Yeah, work life balance based, family focused, you are making your business fit around your family, rather than making your family fit ruined your business? Yep. Can you speak a little bit about how those steps came about, like how you made that transition? Because I'm sure there are a whole heap of people that would love to know how to do that.
Jen Dugard 27:21
I know there are because I help. I think, well, one, I had a you know, despite having postnatal depression, and all of those things, which you can come out the other end, we had a period of time, and maybe still, in some or many ways, were in the doesn't didn't want to just go go after school. So the very quickly became this, you know, I stopped doing early morning PT, because the first realization was, Oh, my goodness, my kids are never going to grow up with me taking them to school. And I wanted to start doing that in primary school. So I think it was using you to mothers and your four. And I put all the things into place so that I could stop doing my mornings, early mornings, and just have my park session. So start at 915, which meant I could drop in at school at 845, drive to Centennial Park and do that. So that worked well for a while. Then I started to struggle dropping into at school, she couldn't just go and I was like almost shoving her through the gates at the school or some days I would, she'd end up coming to the park with me because she would just stand by my car. And I'm like, shit, what do I do now. So she would come to the park, which was probably the best thing for her being in nature. And then I would drive her back to school back to school at lunchtime. But I started to realize that even even though I'd created this business that was in Scotts side of school hours, it wasn't working for me and for her, therefore, it wasn't working for our family. And so I started to think about what what was going to be next. And I always have this ability, or I guess it is an ability to think about where I want to be in five years time, but to start that process of where I want to be in five years, five years earlier. So you know that that came out of necessity in a way what I started then this you know, year to year process of, I need to sell this business, I need to stop having to be somewhere at 915 in the morning. And I will talk to the kids about it and to Indian say look, I understand like I need to be there and this is what I'm doing and and give me a year and nothing happens overnight. And this is when when you were saying before about this people I'm sure that's people out there running businesses that are out of alignment with their whole life values. There are and the thing that we need to understand is, you know, some people may have the luxury and the financial backing or whatever just to go. I'm going to stop doing this thing. Now. Most of us have to go through this period of going well that's where I want to get to Oh, and these are the things that need to change and how am I going to put those things in place to change that so I think I'd already started running my course say pretend to exercise but what I knew was in order to stop being the trainer in the park running the group training business I had to increase my income from Safe Return to Exercise to a point where it was just below where the park was then find someone to buy that like I didn't want to just I probably would have walked away in the end but I didn't want to like I wanted that to go on and moms to still be looked after in that that space and then to take that leap of faith when you've built something up and then you know that you've you can't take the next step until you create the space so that's what I what I did and every decision since then, including the decision to not license or franchise has been built upon what what effect will this have not only on my financial income and financial well being and whatever freedom if that's what you want to call it, but on my children and on my relationship and on my health and well being and on my mental health and on my you know, all of the things that you put into your your life areas.
Sarah 31:23
I would just like to see one thing which is your Body Beyond Baby, you said at the beginning, you know, it was like pretty much about getting your body back. I feel like Body Beyond Baby evolved into it's more about the your body, or sorry, evolved into this journey is more about your body, like evolved into leuco, meaning your body is look what it can do. It has birth and other human beings. Yep, it nourishes that child. Your body is awesome. And like I said to you, I was never fitter than when I trained with you after having three children. So I feel like the ethos of Body Beyond Baby might have started off alluded to being a bit misguided around you know, getting back to pre pregnancy. But it became something so much more. Yeah. And I think the name of the business allows for that,
Jen Dugard 32:13
too. Yeah, it wasn't back to your body or that into your mind.
Sarah 32:19
Anyway, I just came in my head. Yeah. Talking enough not to say no. And then so you sold Body Beyond Baby. I did. And that was huge.
Jen Dugard 32:30
Yeah, it took me longer than I thought it was going to and I didn't sell it for hundreds of 1000s of dollars. But I did. I feel like I walked away from it and handed it to somebody that it's actually now in its third iteration of person. But I did sell it. Yeah, that was
Sarah 32:48
cool. It was huge for I remember that period, like, a couple of years where you were going through all the process of trying to find the right person. Yeah, well, yeah, because it in a way it was also a baby of yours that you've grown until
Jen Dugard 33:00
it was what 10 years old? Yeah, it was 10 years. Pretty much. Exactly. Yeah. So that was a big deal.
Sarah 33:04
But exciting because it did like you said it freed up the space for your next step. Yeah, it was developing safe return to exercise.
Jen Dugard 33:12
Yeah, so I developed Safe Return to Exercise launched two years before it's all or a year and a bit before we sold. So the end of 2016 And I developed that because throughout my I guess awareness of wanting to reach more mums. I also had an awareness that there wasn't many courses out there for trainers and definitely non that had a bigger focus or have a good focus on the postpartum period which I still stand by today and believe that more women will do damage to their bodies in the postpartum period because we think that heavy sits whichever one and we're fine which again is a whole big jump suffer Yeah. And you feel okay, so you must be okay. So you know, that's why it's called Safe Return to Exercise even though it does cover pregnancy and there was a big gap in the market like there's a bunch of other awesome courses that have there are now in the market so there's lots of for people to go and do which is really cool because my way is not the only way and a lot of the trainers that we work with do my course and then they do all the other courses or they do all the other courses and then they do my course which I love but yeah I guess selling body be on baby gave me space to go down the road of what was then called the body man baby affiliate but also then to really grow safe return to exercise and deliver that to more trainers.
Sarah 34:35
So what actually is it because it's not a fitness course in that you're actually you know out in the park teaching mums, no no and it's now just Body Beyond Baby thats called Safe Return to Exercise. Your training.
Jen Dugard 34:49
Yeah, so Safe Return to Exercise is a 16 hour certification in the pre and postnatal space. So for already qualified for already qualified personal trainers. You do have Yeah, yeah, we have some people that just do it out of interest, but it is therefore, qualified pts. Okay.
Sarah 35:06
And can you tell me a little bit more about that kind of side of things make that journey? Yeah. I mean, you just wrote the course a training program. Yeah, I
Jen Dugard 35:17
didn't really know what I was doing. I still don't. Sometimes, a lot of the time, I also had to overcome this fear of public speaking, which is weird, because you spend your whole life standing up in front of people and I would deliver the massive workout to to be groups of people. And then, you know, I remember the early days of delivering the course, it was so scary. And there was a few times I was like, I just want the ground to just swell up and like, open up and swallow me now. And I'd go home at the end of it, we call it a lot of the courses in early days and cry thinking that kind of really bad job. But what I was driven by the impact that the course will make. So you know, if I teach one trainer, that one trainer teaches their 10 to 50 mums who then tell their friends, so, you know, from my desire to want to reach more mums, I could do that through teaching trainers.
Sarah 36:11
Yeah, so it was a mission driven? Absolutely. Business. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, how long have you been teaching Safe Return to Exercise? And I know, that's gone through a couple of variations and redevelopments and rewrites. You often teach it in national international ways. So
Jen Dugard 36:30
yeah, so say, for instance, excise has been delivered since 2016. And it's delivered across a few different countries. So Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Taiwan. So I have a business partner in Taiwan. And it was an interpreter and we now have a local presenter. So that's cool.
Sarah 36:51
Very cool. Yeah. Nice. So your global well, getting there. I could say that. Asia Pacific. Yes. Um, and so you've also got, you know, just because you are you you've also got MumSafe on the go. Yep. as well.
Jen Dugard 37:10
MumSafe is the evolution of Body Beyond Baby. So when I sold what even on baby, I retain the brand. And that's when you know that that amazing training. Magdalena, she said, said the thing, like, I want to know what you know, and do what you do. So that launched me into wanting to mentor so yes, let's do Safe Return to Exercise, let's teach trainers how to work with mums. But, you know, it's also really apparent to me that a lot of trainers don't run great businesses. And I'd made a lot of mistakes, and I had business awareness, and a lot of other trainers have no business awareness, and they're struggling, and to have the impact that they're capable of, they need to have a great business. So I wanted to bring together the people that were leading the way in the way moms are looked after in the industry. So you know, I created what was called the body of your baby affiliate team. And that existed for a couple of years as it was, was pretty small, but it was the concept behind it was these are the trainers that are they've done safe return to exercise, they're partnered with the with the Women's Health physio, they're committed to that ongoing education because within that, within the body, when baby affiliate, we would do the ongoing education. And they've got another couple of other boxes. So they're registered with AUSactive and they have hold the right insurance. But I just wanted to bring together cool trainers, that we're all on a mission to make sure all mums are looked after safely and effectively. So that's what we did. And then a year ago, we we started calling our Body Beyond Baby affiliates, MumSafe trainers. So you'd go to the Body Beyond Baby website, and then you'd find a MumSafeafe trainer. And in the end, it was like this is really what we've got two brands going on. And the first one makes no sense at all. So we made the decision to ditch the Body Beyond Baby brand, but Body Beyond Baby is still the name of my company. So it's like it's still there. But we trade as MumSafe and MumSafe is committed to safe and effective exercise for mums at every stage of motherhood.
Sarah 39:20
Once you've had a baby or all the mums, yeah,
Jen Dugard 39:22
and it was in the early days, it really was a lot of mums and Bubs based businesses and that's where I'd come from and that makes sense but you know, the more that we evolve and the more trainers that we work with there's about there's around 90-95 trainers now that are MumSafe trainers we we really listen to what they what they want their feedback and I had some people come to me really great trainers that I loved working with that said I just don't feel like I fit you anymore. Like why I know that you fit and they're like you know Body Beyond Baby like it's you know, it's like no like if we want, if we want to make sure all mums are looked after safely and effectively. It's not all new mums, new mums are always going to be a big part of what we do, because there's that education piece that needs to happen straightaway. But there's so many mums with older children that are not being looked after repeat, we just assume that they don't need the support anymore. So the evolution to the mums safe brand and then what mum say stands for and the fact that it's, you know, we want CrossFit CrossFit instructors, we want Pilates instructors, we want yoga teachers, we want swim, Aqua instructors, we want personal trainers in the park and personal trainers in the gyms and, and letting go of my scripts and things like that, because I know that not every mom wanted to train in the way that you trained with me in the park. Lots of moms want lots of different options. So there are more more trainers we have from more disciplines and more places, training mums of all ages and stages, the bigger impact we get to have. So that's mum saying.
Sarah 41:06
Okay. And I guess the next thing to look at then as you've moved into the evolution of you has been in the park at the forefront, like actually face to face training. Yep. Mums, to stepping away from that, to allowing your contractors to train mums to stepping away from that to writing a course, for other trainers to train mums to running, coaching business, really, for mums, safe trainers and all the diversities in their businesses like you just talked about. So your four steps back from where you started? Not bad, but up, I guess, removed from like that. Yeah, at the forefront. And you're coaching coaches? Yeah. It's like that trickle down, which is still informing all the mission stuff of mom safe and reaching mums and developing that. But do you want to talk a little bit about that coach space? Like where you sit? No.
Jen Dugard 42:13
I think coaching is interesting. i The more self aware I am the more aware of the coaching world and what's ideal and what's not ideal. I guess I I want to offer our MumSafe trainers, business support and coaching so that they can run businesses that have the biggest impact that they possibly can do both in their like from their values based and also in their community. But I think it's really important to understand what a coach does or doesn't do should and I hate the word should but should or should not do. And I use it in this in this sense, because my role as a coach is not ever to say to someone, you should do this. So I should not tell you what you should do. I can listen to you and I can I can offer you a framework. And I think that's what MumSafe does really well. It gives trainers from all different disciplines, a really good framework to build their business, follow some processes, follow the procedures, all of that stuff's in there. But at no step along the way, should I be telling you what is right or wrong. My job is to listen to what you want, where you want to get to the impact that you want to have, and then offer you guidance on how you could do that. And yes, call you out if like, you know, it's excuse after excuse after excuse, but I guess I truly believe that a coach, we're not there to tell you what to do. And I've had a few I think I feel quite strongly about at the moment, I've had a few trainers come to me that previous coaches have said, You should do this, or you shouldn't do that. And they've done those things which has had a financial impact on their business to the point in which they're really struggling. And I think this is a good opportunity to just bring to awareness from trainers, like, you know, this is the first episode in this podcast, or maybe it's part two now because we've been talking for so long. But to set the stage and say, I've done a lot of stuff, but I've not done at all. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've not made them all. I've done a lot of things right and I've seen other people do things right based upon what I've shared with them. But my goal is to bring a container of support and guidance for you to have your own experience and to for you to feel supportive along the way. So I'm really intrigued in the whole coaching space at the moment and going deeper into that from a personal perspective but actually learning more about what I shouldn't do than what I should do probably. Yeah.
Sarah 45:04
Yeah. And I guess, you know, useful currently aren't about the table, you know. So rather than having a table now, I feel like you've got a horseshoe, rather than close circle. You know, you've got space so people can continue to join it because there's Yeah, yes to being closed down. Yeah. That's really awesome. Yeah.
Jen Dugard 45:31
It's interesting, I make people stop and reflect all the time on what they've done. I think this conversation is a good opportunity to do so. Thank you so much for being with us for this episode today. As always, it's been an absolute pleasure to have one more conversation that takes us closer to our goal of safe and effective exercise for all women at every stage of motherhood. If you've enjoyed what you've heard, please make sure you hit follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and rate and review so more people can join us next time. For further information about anything we've talked about in this episode, head to jendugard.com forward slash podcast. And if you want to connect with me in person, I would love to hear from you over at my Instagram @jendugard. Thank you for your voice in this space. Have a beautiful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
