Jen:
Mish, welcome to the MumSafe Movement Podcast.
Mish:
It's great to be here and always great to be with you, Jen.
Jen:
I am so excited that you're my first guest. It allows me to fuck things up from the get go because we know each other so well and it takes the pressure off a lot. So I know you really well, but no, let's just start that again because I wanted to do
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
the word of when I'm working on and I forgot word when working on.
Mish:
I've... Oh yeah. What was I gonna say? Oh, how long is this gonna go for? How long
Jen:
I reckon
Mish:
are
Jen:
if
Mish:
you...
Jen:
we hit like a 40 minute being the minimum and no longer
Mish:
Yep.
Jen:
than an hour.
Mish:
Yeah, cool.
Jen:
Yeah,
Mish:
Perfect.
Jen:
cool. Okay, cool, cool, cool. So they can cut the beginning out. Mish, welcome to the Mumsafe Movement podcast.
Mish:
Hi, Jim, great to be here.
Jen:
I'm going to start every podcast. This is episode, technically episode one, apart from the first two that I've done where people can get to know who I am, but we're going to start every podcast with a guest asking you to share with us a word in which you're showing up today. And it doesn't have to be a good word, as in it doesn't have to be all positive if that's not where you're at today, a win and something that you're working on.
Mish:
Okay, so I think the word would have to be a little bit groggy. I, as you know, been having long COVID and some days a bit of than others. And yeah, today is a little a little groggy, which means my head is very heavy. A bit like waking up with a hangover actually,
Jen:
Okay.
Mish:
which, which kind of takes me to my when I published my blog last night about giving up alcohol, so I don't have a hangover. I have a long COVID hangover, perhaps it's more apt. And the blog is about, I gave up drinking and it's about how to quit mummy wine time, which is a really socially acceptable thing to do. And it seems to be hitting a lot of people. I'm getting a lot of messages from that. And what am I working on? So I am... filming later on today, probably after my breakfast and some coffee. And I am working on my presentation, which will be a masterclass for working with training to fatigue.
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
So not just for trainers, but for any woman who is working with either long COVID like myself or has fatigue from chronic fatigue or which is post exercise malaise, or even just having menopausal symptoms that kind of wrap all of that up during my own COVID journey. I have researched a lot, experienced a lot and come up with some strategies that I think not only trainers can use, but just general women. So I'm going to film that later today.
Jen:
Amazing. Let's circle back for a second to the alcohol thing. So I'm 316 days. I have a counter on my phone, alcohol free. What was
Mish:
Wow.
Jen:
your
Mish:
So...
Jen:
reason, Mish?
Mish:
I had been experiencing some neurological glitches. And when I was experiencing episodes of deja vu,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
I know that sounds weird, but it's actually a symptom of epilepsy. And then when I got COVID, they went like, and during that time I was like, something weird is happening in my brain. I'm gonna just tidy up my act.
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
And so I really... It's been bugging me for a long time how much I drink and how poorly it serves me. And so I'd been doing lots of different things on North, but yeah, when I got COVID, everything was really bad. I thought I had a brain tumor. And so I had to go and see a neurologist and I don't have a brain tumor, but that made, it was like a kick in the pants, say, do you know what? I'm not fucking around with this. I... I have a really good brain. It is the thing that I want to protect as much as I can. And I am, I'm going to fucking protect it. And I know that alcohol does not help my brain and as well as the research is very clear around breast cancer and all of those things. So, and I tied all into this as menopause and you know, I think when you turn 50 or go through menopause, it's almost like this gateway where you can design the new you. How do you want to spend the next third of your life? Cause it's not like your life is over. 50 is kind of, you know, halfway really. If you live a very long life. But say you live to the average age for women, which is, you know, in your 80s, I've got another 30 odd years. So my health is, is really is really key. And of course, I love exercise and eating well. So that's not really an issue for me, but alcohol is. And I, cutting back wasn't really an option because I've done that before. And basically I just slide back into my old habits. So I just bit the bullet and yeah, it's been. hard and easy.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
I think it's a lot more acceptable now to be alcohol free, there's a lot more options. But things like you know, I went to Europe last month, I go to the Qantas club. We've always started every single trip off with some French champagne at Qantas club and I would never not drink the wine that they
Jen:
Hahaha
Mish:
that they give on the plane. So all of those first are although they are hard to imagine and kind of hard to do after a while, they start to empower you and you get this kind of momentum of like, yeah, I'm a non-drinker. I've just written a follow-up blog last night about kind of, you know, the first part of giving up alcohol was being curious about
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
what your life would look like. So you kind of. look around and think, Oh, this is like a new outfit that I could wear. You know, and so I can dress up in this and I can be this person this person is a non drinker. Because really, it's a mind shift. Yeah, so I, I, I don't like to say I'm never going to drink again, though, that's the reality of what I feel like is the answer. My answer is always just, well, I'm just not drinking today.
Jen:
Yeah, I think what you said about it's been easy and not easy really hit home for me. And my experience was that I would wake up at midnight, one o'clock, even after only two glasses of wine, and I would wake up and go, I'm never fucking drinking again because I feel like shit. And inevitably the next day I would drink again. And it just got to one point, I think my husband last dried you lice and I'm going to do the last three weeks of dry July. doing that thing that had been exactly the same as you, Mish, on the back of my mind for a really long time, like, could I not drink? Who am I if I don't drink? How do I come across in social situations if I don't drink? Because I can be quite a socially anxious person. I don't feel like I make friends well. I don't feel like I speak well. But becoming that person without the alcohol has been a really interesting. journey, especially we've just moved to Queensland, it's like, how am I supposed to make friends with like the school mums if I'm not going to catch up over a glass of wine and I've not
Mish:
Mummy
Jen:
made friends
Mish:
wine
Jen:
with
Mish:
time!
Jen:
any of the school mums. So I don't actually know how I'm still going to do that. But yeah, I
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
think we digressed a bit there, but I think it's a really important and valuable conversation. The no alcohol. Yep.
Mish:
Yeah, yeah. Look, I think it's a lot more acceptable now
Jen:
It is.
Mish:
to, and there's lots of options. So, you know, taking some non-alcoholic beer and just kind of sliding under the radar. But yeah, it's, although I'm, I love being social and I really don't need alcohol to do that, I have a lot of relationships, especially even in the fitness industry
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
it's all about presenting at a conference and going out drinking
Jen:
Going for
Mish:
afterwards.
Jen:
a drink. Yep.
Mish:
Yeah. And so I had that November last year and it was easier because I think people now have been unwell to accept it. They stop, they wouldn't because it's a, it's a look, we know at
Jen:
Yep. Well, we're gonna get there. Ha ha ha.
Mish:
we are going to get there.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
But, you know, especially and conferences, you know, there's only a there's only a few women who are presenting at the level.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
And, and so you have it's, it's a kind of a blokey environment. And I've always been able to bloke up and hang out. So yeah, but, but anyway, I must have been doing it for a long time, because they accept me as a non drinker, maybe maybe
Jen:
I think
Mish:
they'd
Jen:
if you
Mish:
talk
Jen:
just
Mish:
about.
Jen:
bring the energy without the alcohol and that's kind of on you, it's on me to bring the energy without feeling like I need the alcohol to bring the energy and to just get on with
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
it. And some
Mish:
yeah.
Jen:
days I can do that and some days I really can't. So I need to not be in that environment. So,
Mish:
Yeah, yeah, that's a good strategy.
Jen:
yeah. All right, let's circle back. So tell me, Mish, we met, I did a bit of research this morning. We met in 2011. at the
Mish:
Wow.
Jen:
Aussmumpreneur conference in Sydney. You were based in, well, you're still based in Melbourne. I was based in Sydney, which I was until the beginning of this year. You were up for the Rising Star Award, which means you'd been in business for two to five years. See, I did my research. And I was in the
Mish:
See
Jen:
service
Mish:
ya!
Jen:
business, the service business of the year award. Neither of us won the top award on that night, but we did meet each other. Tell me a little bit about pre that, because you had already started to franchise Mishfit. What
Mish:
and
Jen:
I'm really interested in, so the goal of this podcast for me to talk to you is one, let's talk to Mish because it's my first one and I don't need to be nervous because she's amazing.
Mish:
Yes
Jen:
Two, we've really been in this space for a really long time and I think that we still know that there's a lot of, there's a lot of work to be done when it comes to working with mums and women, mums of all ages and stages. But we started somewhere and that somewhere for me was Marley's 14, 14 years ago, and for you, similar, maybe even longer. So go back to why you got into working with mums in the first place.
Mish:
So, well, as you know, I fitness was my second career, I was a teacher and, and I love teaching. But I, when I moved to Australia, you know, I had a very unfortunate situation. And I can say it in like three sentences to get it out of the way. If people haven't heard my story, but I had my daughter, Emily in London, and then I'm a Kiwi, but I didn't quite want to move back to New Zealand. So my husband and I, we had friends in Melbourne. So we decided we would move to Melbourne and within a year we bought a house. renovated it, I got pregnant, and then my husband left for a woman that he had met six weeks before,
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
who was, as he said, his soul mate. Yeah, it didn't work out, but there you go. So he told me about that, and I told him to, his stuff would be by the fucking door. And I kicked him out. I asked him if he was going to Liberia and he said no. But he thought we could just still live together till
Jen:
and you'll
Mish:
Max
Jen:
see.
Mish:
was born. Yeah, really interesting. And I was like, yeah, I don't think so. So I had very few friends, I had no family. I had a toddler and I was heavily pregnant with my second child. I have never suffered from depression. And interestingly, when Max was born, I was put on antidepressants. But I think we know more about trauma now.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
Like really, I was having post traumatic stress, you know, I'd had a very traumatic birth with Milly. And then this was supposed to be the kind of birth that made things all better. And it was ended up being, you know, a shit show. So I had a girlfriend, a friend in London, she was a Kiwi, I used to teach with her. Basically, I had people fly in and support me. I was not alone actually until Max was nine months old. That's incredible.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
But this one friend, so my mom came over, my brother came over first more than my mom and then someone else came over. And then Paz came and she, I picked her up from the airport. She was leaving London for good and going back to New Zealand to live for good. and to get married and all that stuff. And I picked her up from the airport and I said, how long are you gonna be with me? And she said, oh, till I know you're on your feet. She stayed with me for six weeks. And during that time, she said, okay, what are we gonna do for exercise today? So we did something, because I used to swim in London and I walked everywhere. I dieted, so that kept me very trim for London.
Jen:
Nice.
Mish:
but I did aerobics, but I never, I don't think I ever even owned a gym membership.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
You know, that was an identity that wasn't me. At school, I was terrible at sport. I couldn't catch a ball. You know, that thing where the teacher does choose your, choose who's gonna be in your team.
Jen:
You're there till the last person.
Mish:
me and Alison McWilliam.
Jen:
Oh.
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
and often I was the last one, yeah. So I've got two older brothers that are sporty, but I love reading. I love reading and writing. I always imagined I'd be a teacher. I'm just a complete book nerd. And so it's such a random, random identity. In fact, if you'd gone to anyone I grew up with, even up to high school, and all of that and said, this is gonna be a fitness professional. They would have fallen off their chair. But what it did for me was kind of saved my life.
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
Like it helped me cope with everything, being fit and being strong. And it was like this drug that was truly amazing. And so when Max, was born and obviously in a couple years. So you know, I was going to the gym it and I went every day because they had a crash. So I could have a couple of hours break from my children, which was important. And yeah, and then I did go back teaching because I was a single mother with a mortgage. So I had to work. And I just I just hated it. It was horrible. Rushing to get my kids into daycare,
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
to then look after other people's kids. I used to be 100% in teaching and I just couldn't be, and it was just tedious. And the worst thing was just so inactive with being a teacher. And so I could feel that black hole opening up again. So I made this radical decision to become a fitness professional. My goal was to, because I love body pump, I thought if I can be a body pump instructor, I will have really hit the big time.
Jen:
Nice.
Mish:
Yeah, so that was my goal. And so I remember telling my mom that I was going back to study to become a fitness professional, and she was just mortified. You've got a degree, you know, like.
Jen:
How old were you then, Mish? When you changed?
Mish:
So. Um, I was 32,
Jen:
Yep. Cool.
Mish:
32. So before I did that, before I studied, though, I took a year where I really went hard at the gym. Like I really stepped it up because I had this image of what a fitness professional looked like. And I was determined to be that. And although I'd had, you know, a really traumatic birth after Millie, I didn't have any issues. And I think that was because I didn't go to the gym.
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
I walked, I didn't have a car in London. So I walked everywhere with her and just kind of lived life. And then with Max, I had a C-section. So I, I had no, I had no pelvic floor issues, even after Max C, you know, because as you know, having a C-section doesn't necessarily mean you're not gonna, you know, so I I didn't have any, I didn't have any issues, but it was that year when I was going hard
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
that I started to leak and I started to have incontinence. So I just thought, Oh, that's a bit random, but I'll just wear a, um, a panty liner by the time. So
Jen:
Did
Mish:
then
Jen:
you do that
Mish:
I
Jen:
though? Did you just simply pick up a panty liner and that was the solution?
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
Okay.
Mish:
didn't tell anyone.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
And then I went from a panty line. I know that when I was teaching body pump, I was wearing a full blow and pad.
Jen:
Okay.
Mish:
And it was at that point, and I had started my business, I'd started getting training training clients. And I wanted to work with moms, because that's where I was. I'd done a couple of courses, but there was even in those back then.
Jen:
There were no courses, were there? What were the courses
Mish:
What
Jen:
that you did?
Mish:
Um, well, it was, there was only one
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
that was, and I don't remember pelvic floor even being a really major thing. It was, it obviously didn't, I was experiencing it and I didn't, and I didn't know about the word prolapse either.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
So I'd done education in that space and still
Jen:
or as much as you could at the time right?
Mish:
Yeah, yeah,
Jen:
Yep,
Mish:
yeah,
Jen:
yep.
Mish:
as much as I could at the time. So it was, yeah, when I was teaching body pump and like, you know, when you're on stage and all those eyes are right at your crutch level. And I was like getting ready. Oh my God, people are gonna tell I've got a pad
Jen:
Mmm.
Mish:
on. It just like, fuck, I've got to sort this out. So I went to see my doctor and I literally thought she was gonna go.
Jen:
Hahaha!
Mish:
And those people listening, you know, like, what the fuck, you're the, you know, you're the only person on this earth who is leaking, who is weighing themselves when they do exercise. And anyway, so she sent me off to a pelvic health physiotherapist, women's health physiotherapist at the Royal Women's, which I didn't even know what it was. It was just a physio, I went along to the appointment. Anyway, she got me to, she put her fingers up inside me, get me to squeeze, do all this, and I was busy saying how, I mean, I remember I even went in my gym gear because I was, you know, in my Mishfit uniform, that's kind of how I lived every day, and I was telling her about what I was doing, and she just spat at me. It was the most terrible, terrible experience. She said to me, because she didn't have any idea about my backstory why exercise was so important to me.
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
And also, and I don't know if you get this, and certainly I got this a lot when I first started, is when I would go to things in my uniform, people assumed I had no brains. They
Jen:
interesting.
Mish:
assumed I was dumb because I was a fitness professional. And I found myself even saying it's different times, I've got a degree in education. Do you know, I'm, I can... by what you're saying and how you know that you think that I don't I'm not intelligent because of my profession. Um so you know there's all that anyway she said
Jen:
I
Mish:
to
Jen:
think
Mish:
me.
Jen:
just on that mission, and I wanna
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
come back to your story, but I think that's really, it's something that I'd definitely forgotten that for a long time that we had to justify the fact that we knew stuff
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
as an exercise professional. And obviously the stuff that we don't
Mish:
Definitely.
Jen:
know, but I do remember the early days, like going into see a pelvic health or, you know, connect with a women's or pelvic health physio and having to kind of come across as, look, I know I don't know it as much as you, but I do know some stuff and let's work together. So yeah, I think when we think about where we've come from, and there's definitely still medical professionals and allied health professionals that still don't think that exercise professionals know enough to be working with this demographic, but I think it's really good to highlight the fact that we do,
Mish:
Yes,
Jen:
yeah.
Mish:
I think those people should be given a wide berth. They should take a long walk or for short plank.
Jen:
Or we could say to them, hey, you know, how about we have a conversation about what we do know before we pass judgment on what we don't know.
Mish:
Yeah, look, I think you're right. And I know we'll talk about it. But the women's health and fitness summit, I think was a was a
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
turning point in the history for allied health and fitness working together that has changed those conversations.
Jen:
Yeah,
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
yeah.
Mish:
But my first experience with a pelvic health physiotherapist or women's health physiotherapist, as they were called back then, was she said to me that I and remember she's got no idea about how important fitness is to me. She just viewed me in my uniform as, you know, some kind of unintelligent being who is just rah rah for the gym. She said, you have to stop doing what you're doing because otherwise you're going to have a prolapse and then you're going to have to have surgery to fix it.
Jen:
Oh my God.
Mish:
And I was just like, what's a prolapse? I had no idea what that was. She didn't tell me what it was. But more what I heard was, I was gonna have to have surgery to fix it, which I'm a single mother, so I can't go to hospital. I can't do that no lifting, no all those sort of things, which is completely wrong anyway.
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
She was just scaring me. And then I was just like... I can't stop what I'm doing.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
If I stop what I'm doing, I'm a missed, you know, like exercise keeps me sane keeps me alive. You know, it's so much more.
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
So yeah, I so I, and I didn't know what a prolapse was. And so I went, she told me the basics that my pelvic floor was weak and that I was leaking. So I went I never forget this. I literally, you know, with my house,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
where I used to live, I ran up the stairs, pulled out all my textbooks from my bookshelf and opened it up to, looked
Jen:
Try and find prolapse.
Mish:
in the
Jen:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Mish:
pelvic floor. Let's just start with pelvic floor. And it wasn't even there. And then that, it was just like, what the fuck? And this thing is happening to me. And, and you know, exercise was the cause of it.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
Exercising inappropriately without understanding of my pelvic floor. And the option was, there was no other B option. I
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
was not gonna stop exercising. So I needed to find out everything. So I met my first other pelvic health physiotherapist who was fantastic. And she, um, she used real time ultrasound for me to see how to contract my pelvic floor. And, and, you know, and so that was the start of my business really is that I partnered with her so I would get moms in,
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
but I would say you need to do this basic care package where you go and have your, um, you have real time ultrasound on your power floor. Now, people listening to this will know that real time, or maybe,
Jen:
Maybe,
Mish:
maybe not,
Jen:
maybe
Mish:
I don't
Jen:
not,
Mish:
know.
Jen:
yeah.
Mish:
Real time ultrasound is not the be all and end all. It has some limitations, but you know, asking someone to go get fingers up their vagina, especially after they're given birth, that's really,
Jen:
can be hard to begin with.
Mish:
yeah, it
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
can be really, really hard, where this is a really soft, easy end, and then if there are issues, they're in the right place to ask them. And then they can go that extra step to have a much more, a better, accurate assessment
Jen:
assessment.
Mish:
with the digital. But yeah, working with her, so we had a relationship and she helped me, she saw me as an equal
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
because I said to her, women aren't going to you, they're coming to me
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
because they want to. to take your words, get their body back,
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
right? They want to get their body back. They're coming to see me. They are, it's not even, I mean, I'm a fitness professional, I didn't even know this existed.
Jen:
What
Mish:
So
Jen:
year
Mish:
they...
Jen:
was this, Mish? Do you remember what year it was?
Mish:
Oh my god.
Jen:
So I just did some maths of my own and I've got, you've got, you're in Melbourne doing what you're doing. And I started Body Beyond Baby in 2008, three months after Marlee was born. So it must have been, was it around that time or a little bit earlier,
Mish:
No, no,
Jen:
earlier?
Mish:
it was three or four. Yeah, probably about three years before that
Jen:
Yeah,
Mish:
2005.
Jen:
yeah. So you were
Mish:
Because
Jen:
probably one of the very first people who started working with women's health physiotherapists as an exercise professional.
Mish:
That was that was I didn't know any others
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
and and that is what I thought I would franchise that that relationship. So for each franchise part of the setup is that I would find a pelvic health physiotherapist near their the franchise and I would go in I had this kind of presentation
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
I gave to them about the benefits for them. and how it would work and how it would benefit them getting new clients in and that we were both after the same thing. So yeah, it, it was a novel concept way back then. But yeah, I still don't have a prolapse and
Jen:
Yay!
Mish:
and I learned how to teach women
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
how to um, work with exercise and, and this happened from just kind of trying things out myself and then I had a ready-made market that I would try it on. And then because I'm a teacher, so I, I wrote it all as a curriculum,
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
you know, remember my background is
Jen:
teaching,
Mish:
teaching
Jen:
yeah. I'm a
Mish:
and
Jen:
little bit envious of that sometimes when you're like, yeah, I just do these things. And I'm like, writing a course is like pulling teeth. I love the end result, but the writing of the course, man, it's like writing a book, it's hard. It's really
Mish:
It
Jen:
hard.
Mish:
is,
Jen:
Well, I
Mish:
it
Jen:
find
Mish:
is,
Jen:
it really hard.
Mish:
it is hard, but it is like, I liken it to, so you know when your children were learning to read, right?
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
It's this kind of, they're doing the whole, looking at the pictures and they're pointing to words and doing all that kind of thing. And then it's like, I don't know if you've experienced this, I do, as a teacher a lot of times, like it's like a light goes on.
Jen:
Yes, I know
Mish:
One
Jen:
that
Mish:
day
Jen:
very
Mish:
they couldn't
Jen:
well.
Mish:
read. Yeah, one day they couldn't read. The next day they're off.
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
They like get it. But it isn't magic. What has happened is that you've taught phonics, you've taught this, you've taught this, you've taught this, you've taught this all in isolation. And then when they kind of get it and move it together, then it goes. So when you're looking and that analogy can be an approach for learning any new skill
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
that can be difficult. So yes, it can be difficult to understand how to work with your pelvic floor when you're doing complicated movements, for example. But if you do each of the things in isolation and really understand them and break them down into bits, that when it comes together, it is like that light turning on. And that's how I approached it when I was teaching women how to use their pelvic floor. And I still to this day have women randomly messaging me because you know, by the stage I've taught, hundreds if not thousands of women,
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
because through the franchise and all of that, messaging me saying, I've just started a new class and I can see the women in front of me going help the leather and I know they don't know what I'm doing, but I know that I can do it and I can still do the same thing. It's not about that first women's health physio who said to me, you have to stop running, not that I ever run, but stop high cardio, stop lifting heavy weights. That is not the answer.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
I was a single mother. I had a runaway, I had a runner for a second child. So I had to run,
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
you know, and he was a, you saw Maxie, he was a fat baby. He was a really big fat baby, a big fat toddler. Now he's huge, right? We know that was gonna
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
happen. But I had to lift him everywhere. He didn't walk for a very long time. So, you know, this is kind of, you can't do weights. Well, that's just, that's just. stupid. As a mother, you are lifting weights,
Jen:
Absolutely.
Mish:
you know, and you're running if you even if you don't like running, there are times when you have to run. So, you know, you have to train your body to work with that not just, you know, sit like a special wallflower on the side of life.
Jen:
Yeah, I do agree with that. And I think that I'm interested me she and what you feel like has changed. So if we go back then there was the physio that scared you into not exercising again. And then I'm so excited that you went and got
Mish:
gave
Jen:
a second.
Mish:
her the finger.
Jen:
Yeah. So excited that you went and got a second opinion because that second women's health physio was a game changer. What was her name? Who is she?
Mish:
Jennifer Langford in
Jen:
Cool.
Mish:
Clifton Hill.
Jen:
Shout out
Mish:
She's
Jen:
to Jennifer.
Mish:
yeah,
Jen:
And my version
Mish:
she's
Jen:
of that was Joe Murdock in
Mish:
yeah,
Jen:
the physiotherapy clinic in Bonner
Mish:
yeah,
Jen:
Junction. And
Mish:
she's fantastic.
Jen:
I don't know about you, but the majority of my education, once I'd done that initial pre and postnatal course, and I think mine was one run through fitness first back in the day, which it was a pre and postnatal course, but it was mostly prenatal, very little postnatal. So
Mish:
Mmm,
Jen:
I took
Mish:
yes!
Jen:
the majority of my education from. working with a women's health physio. And I decided to do that because I got in front of the moms I'm working with and I was like, I actually don't know if I'm doing the right thing. And I was
Mish:
It's
Jen:
lucky,
Mish:
horrifying.
Jen:
it's scary. And I was lucky I didn't really have a trauma story. I did have a birth where my pelvic, I got told my pelvic floor was too strong and I thought that was a cool, really good thing. But later on I learned that my pelvic floor was too tight and I needed to understand how to relax it. But it wasn't until you know, probably a year or so, six months a year into my journey of working with moms themselves that I went, I really need to know more than I know. And the course that I've done does not give me and there's no other course.
Mish:
Yes.
Jen:
I think Jenny Burrell was probably the only other course that I did when she eventually came to Australia. But
Mish:
Yes.
Jen:
where was I going to get my education from?
Mish:
Yes, you're right. It was all based on prenatal
Jen:
It
Mish:
and
Jen:
was.
Mish:
postnatal. And,
Jen:
It wasn't even
Mish:
and
Jen:
a thing.
Mish:
it wasn't a thing. And also, you know, I mean, it still isn't in the greater and you talk about this all the time. I just love your work, Jean. I just, you know, what you're doing is, yeah, just fantastic. I just, yeah.
Jen:
Thank you.
Mish:
Big shout out. Yeah. But you know, in the medical. you know, they do the same thing like postnatal is six weeks.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
You know, it's, yeah, it's something it's the skills women need to learn for the rest of their life. And they're just missing from what are still missing from the qualifications that fitness professionals do today. And it's it's a travesty. And if you don't sort this shit out, it only gets worse when you know, you go through perimenopause.
Jen:
Yeah, so if we think back, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head of where we wanna go with this conversation anyway, but if we think back to your first experience with a women's health physio that scared you, do you think that that's still happening? Do you think the scaring is still happening?
Mish:
I don't know. I don't know. I have been criticized, but I've done a lot of writing of like, if you see a pelvic health physiotherapist and they tell you to stop doing exercise,
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
then you need to find another pelvic health physiotherapist and I feel quite strongly about that. There has been a movement in. So first of all, there were only very few pelvic health physios in Australia.
Jen:
Yes, yes.
Mish:
It you know, there's a whole kind of back history about that when now it's, and it tended to be older women, when
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
now in the last 10 years has been a real shift of young people doing the qualifications to work in pelvic health. And so with that, you're getting more diverse, they're bringing in their own like, well, we need to be active. So there's been a real shift in in that And also, when I especially when I first started, I remember going to, so I would go to the physio conferences and
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
my uniform and tell people that I have a degree in education. Those are the situations when I would have to pull that out. But I remember like I had good friends on the inside, who they were all talking about me saying, what is mesh doing here? She doesn't belong here.
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
And I didn't pretend to be a physio. My whole thing was like, you need me. You need the fitness industry. You need us to work together because women are coming to me, they're not coming to you. When
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
they come to you, it's a lot worse.
Jen:
They're already broken, yep.
Mish:
Well, yeah, I don't like to use that word, but yeah,
Jen:
No, you're
Mish:
they've
Jen:
right.
Mish:
got,
Jen:
That was a reflection
Mish:
they've
Jen:
on language
Mish:
got.
Jen:
there. Not a good word.
Mish:
they've got issues, right? But if we can get them before and educate them, so they can keep moving so that we can ward off things like, you know, mental health,
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
postnatal depression, all of those, as well as chronic conditions, all the wonderful things that exercise gives you. But yeah, we need to work together. And that was the motivator to start the Women's Health and Fitness Summit. That and also I got really annoyed at going to FILEX and panels and all of these things. And it was men talking about the same thing. There might be one or two spending all that money to go to FILEX and looking at the conference. And there was less than a handful of things that were of interest to me. And I'm like, I'm not... Why am I a niche? I am not a
Jen:
You're
Mish:
niche.
Jen:
not a niche. Yep.
Mish:
You know, and this should be standard education for all fitness professionals. And you know, I've been banging that drum for a very, very long time. And yeah, I just yeah, just and the nepotism of, of the industry as well. So I had my beef with with fireworks.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
And so it was that I wanted to and also women weren't getting speaking gigs. And when they did, they often weren't that good. So they didn't get asked back. But that's because they weren't given a chance.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
It's really hard to get on stage and talk to people even if you're really, you know, really good at what you do. It's a different whole set of skill set and where they had nurtured their presenters the whole time because they were friends. So they got the gigs every year and they got better because they presented every year. Women were getting the odd one. They I remember my first time I presented at FILEX I was just terrible. I was just horrible. Like it was I was Yeah. West
Jen:
I used to apologise
Mish:
present.
Jen:
to everybody. I'm so sorry, I'm nervous. It's like, Jen, just shut the fuck up and get on with it.
Mish:
Yeah, but we didn't have that platform. And that's
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
so, so that was, you know, I had kind of three goals for the Women's Health and Fitness Summit, which was to create an environment where physios and fitness found each other around women's health because they're two very important. Not one is, there's not one that's more important than the
Jen:
No.
Mish:
other. So we need to lift fitness up. to say actually what you do is really, really important. And we needed to open up physio's mindset as well about the benefits that could come working with fitness. And then it was about having topics that were missing from
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
our industry event, FILEX at the time. And then the third one was to help support new presenters to stage. And Jen, you were, you.
Jen:
was and I remember that very first one mission you calling me and I was like, yep, I'll do that. I was like, holy fuck, I get to stand on a stage and speak. And it was scary, but it was amazing. And it was definitely, you know, you know, when I look back at our journey together, you've always been someone that I was reflecting on it this morning, that you've always led the way and created opportunity. Although I did reflect on, so I remember, and I'm gonna digress a little bit from what you were saying, we'll look back to it, but the very, when we first met at the Osmond Pruner Conference, and we discovered what each other did, and I know that you told me that you were franchising Mishfit, and I know back then that I was like, oh, oh, but that's what I wanted to do. And it was a very different head space than where we are now, and... You know, you and I have both leaned into collaboration over competition, but I wanted to talk about that on this because I was like, Oh, if she's franchising Mishfit, there's no room for me to franchise Body Beyond Baby. And of course there's so much room for everyone. And I think off the back of that, you doing the Women's Health and Fitness Summit. And then I remember sitting watching you getting an award at, um, back in the fitness Australia quality improvement awards. And I didn't even know those, those awards were a thing and you got the award. And I was like, okay, cool. I can do that. Cause Mish has done that. And it's been, I remember then you saying to me once, I wanna be on the board of fitness Australia. And I was like, I'm gonna do that. And there's so many things that whether you've realized it or not, that it's like, oh, when you see somebody else, either whether you're executing, you do it or not, by simply saying, I'm gonna do that. And I believe I can do that. You've created space for me and I think so many other people, especially through the women's health and fitness summit to do that. So, you know, thank you for that. Very, very cool.
Mish:
Do you know, I was reflecting back on our first meeting as well and isn't it funny how we all come to the party with our own issues, because I remember looking at you going, she really does look like a fitness professional.
Jen:
with the with the disordered eating and all that kind of shit going on
Mish:
Thanks for watching!
Jen:
as well. So, you know, little does the outside package tell us.
Mish:
You know, like, damn, you know, like, I just not there, you know, so we all carry our own, you know,
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
things. But, but yeah, I, and franchising was about that as in like, why should be be working in little silos? That doesn't make any sense. We need to be collaborating because this there needs to be a radical change.
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
And if we're all just fighting over our little, our little
Jen:
Peace.
Mish:
plot of, yeah, our little piece of the pie and kind of, oh, you know, look what she's doing, blah, blah, blah. That's not that's getting in the way
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
of the big change that needs to happen. So yeah, I, I think and I don't think franchising was the way to go. It didn't really pan out for me.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
It was very difficult. So I was also envious of you taking more time and kind of thinking about it more where I'm kind of, right, I'm gonna do that. And I start tomorrow. I just don't do it at an event. I make one bigger than Ben Hur.
Jen:
You know who you did bring to that event though, when we're talking about strong women leading when, and that was when I was going through, not the first summit, the last summit, when Molly Galbraith
Mish:
Malakou
Jen:
came
Mish:
breath.
Jen:
over. And I was in this space of, I'm developing Body Beyond Baby, and back then it was known as the Body Beyond Baby affiliate. And I was not franchising, but I was still trying to carve up the country and go, well, you have this bit and you have this bit. And Molly said, build a table big enough for everybody. And it
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
was that second, and I've probably still got the note in my phone, I was like, fuck this, I'm not carving anything up because
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
I need women to, or trainers that work with moms to understand that it does not matter if there's 10 trainers working in the same park as you or in the same suburb
Mish:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen:
as you. There are thousands upon thousands of moms and women that need our help. And none of us can look after all of them. And everybody needs to hear the unique voice that speaks to them. So not everyone's gonna hear my voice and not everyone was gonna hear the Mishfit franchise voice and the Body Beyond Baby model wasn't right for everybody, which is hats off to you for bringing Molly, for me hearing Molly to then create this thing
Mish:
Yep.
Jen:
and hopefully it is an army of trainers changing the landscape.
Mish:
Yeah, I'm just gonna reach over here to get Molly's book out. So Strong Women Lift Each
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
Other Up. It's a really, really great read. And she she is great. And
Jen:
Cheers.
Mish:
not, you know, not everyone who works in our space is about collaboration. And I tend to just move away from those people. They
Jen:
I
Mish:
have
Jen:
like to
Mish:
no
Jen:
challenge them and say but why? Come at, come at, like look how different it is if we can be friends. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
Ha ha ha ha.
Mish:
yeah,
Jen:
Ha ha
Mish:
maybe
Jen:
ha
Mish:
I'm
Jen:
ha.
Mish:
a, you know, but yeah. What was I going to say? Anyway, I was, yeah, we've come a long way, but it is all about, there needs to be a much bigger movement than us. I know what I was gonna say. So, one of the things I used to do when I lived in New Zealand is I, you might not know this about me, but I. volunteered for an organization called HAPE, Hamilton Abuse Intervention Pilot Project. And what it was was that I was a counselor for abusive men. So what they were finding in New Zealand was that domestic abuse, now this is in the early 90s,
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
so a long time ago, domestic abuse had run up and the police would go to a burglary beforehand. So... And then what would happen, they turn up and then the woman say, you know, wouldn't want to press charges. And so nothing really changed to them. So they run this project where police had to respond first. They put the men in jail overnight. Refuge came in and supported the woman to see what she wanted to do. And then the men were sentenced to either prison or end this course or the course. And so I was a women's facilitator on
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
that course of working with violent men. There was a lot of flak. I used to go to refuge meetings, women's refuge meetings, and some women couldn't talk to me because I was speaking to men.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
And sometimes I feel this is a pretty extreme kind of thing, but you have to... in order for there to be change, you have to look everybody in the eye and respect them as a person. And to know that they are capable of being of learning and changing
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
when we know better, we do better.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
And but you can't do that if you don't have that respect. So, you know, there was a I suppose, I think there's also been a change in in education around this is just education, only women are going to be interested in this education to work with women. And so I know that I pitch a lot of my education to make men feel inclusive in this because again, we're not going to get wholesale changed, unless we have everybody at the at the table. So it has to be relevant for them as well. Yeah, just thought to throw that in there.
Jen:
No, I think it's really important. So if you were, if you were going to wave your magic wand and we've talked a lot about where we've been and where we are not yet, what changes would you see, Mish? If you had full control, what would we be doing different?
Mish:
And which respect
Jen:
in
Mish:
in
Jen:
that
Mish:
the fitness.
Jen:
let's go in the pre and postnatal space.
Mish:
in the pre and postnatal.
Jen:
Let's go early pre postnatal.
Mish:
So I would have that every fitness professional understands how, what that means.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
They have a baseline and it's not extraordinary. It's incredibly ordinary that women are not trained like small men. And... Yeah, I think that's the, I might think of something even more jaw dropping later. But I do think that's the nexus of it all is that I wish everybody knew that the education that fitness professionals receive is based on the research of young fit men.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
When you understand that it's like, I've seen so many people go, oh, that's why I've gone to do the things that I'm supposed to be doing and it hasn't felt right for me. And I've been a square peg in a round hole and I'm made to feel to blame. Because I think that's what happens. Women get injured and they're made to feel that they're to blame. When actually there's a systemic issue around the education of fitness professionals.
Jen:
Who do
Mish:
But...
Jen:
you think the key players are to change that mesh?
Mish:
It's so tricky because I was on the board to review
Jen:
Mm. Fuck.
Mish:
the qualifications. You're on that now.
Jen:
But I'm like fuck man we cannot wait another three to five years for this to be done again for change to happen
Mish:
Yeah, well, I tell you what, it's really hard. It's like a huge juggernaut. I managed to get some changes in, and
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
if anyone's gonna get changes in, it's me, because I'm like
Jen:
I
Mish:
a bossy,
Jen:
know.
Mish:
a bossy bitch who'll stand on my soapbox and bang my fucking drum. And yeah, the reality is, is that I, it's, it will be a long time. It's changed, so for those people with the background, every three to five years, different certificates, the government mandates that they are
Jen:
Hmm.
Mish:
reviewed and updated, that they are such cumbersome pieces of work, and documentation and and stuff that it is really difficult. You make one change say you say you mandate that every fitness professional has to do an elect with pre postnatal that throws all the gyms across the country into a tizzy because then who has to pay for that? Do you know, like you think one small change has this ripple effect for good and for bad and so change is difficult. Not that I'm saying it shouldn't be done.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
I certainly got changes with language and and I made sure that whenever there was a... the updated with stuff that's in there now. Whenever you have a diagram, it was normally a male body, that there would have to be a female body next to it. And any changes, you know, on that diet, diagram model.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
And the language was very gendered. And so, you know, I helped change the language. But huge systemic change. I couldn't get it done. So okay, it's we're taking bits of the pie. But really, what's going to drive is, is the market,
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
like with any with any sort of things that you know, fitness is no different to energy or finance or any other market. When the market demands it, then the industry responds. So if you've got women who are rocking up saying, I just had a baby, where are your qualifications to working with me will start to see change. If women are going through perimenopause, and this is where it's so tricky because they might just think that they are really life is busy because it coincides and it's like a bowl of spaghetti. What does menopause and what does just work and life fatigue and whatever else is going on? But certainly, you know, if you know, you're in perimenopause as well, going to that fitness professional saying, what qualifications have you got to work with me? Because there are times when women can train like young fit men for sure,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
but that's not,
Jen:
Not
Mish:
you
Jen:
forever.
Mish:
know, as well. And also it's not in the cycle, you know, like we can even take it to the period, the menstrual cycle. There are times in that menstrual cycle when you can kick ass and train like you are a young, fit man. And there are other times within that cycle alone, it's not advisable. You know, it's not that time. So that's just your menstrual cycle and then you've got your cycle of your reproduction years as well, pregnancy postnatal, pregnancy postnatal, pregnancy postnatal, perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause. So yeah, I think if the... market were to demand it more. Women got on their big girls knickers and said, what did you know, can you show me your qualification
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
and and and not something from 1990 with 20. When will we doing those ones that were really
Jen:
Yeah,
Mish:
terrible?
Jen:
a long time ago.
Mish:
You know, I should I should be updated, you know, fairly regularly. There's just been changes, you know, just recently, etc,
Jen:
Yeah,
Mish:
etc. Yeah.
Jen:
I think when I think about the purpose of this podcast and it is, we speak to moms and trainers that work with moms and I really love that we've just put the empowerment and the case for change back into the hands of the very people that we're talking to in that if you're a personal trainer listening and you're working with moms, the education that you're putting out there on your social media following, whether you've got 200 followers, 2000 followers, 20,000 followers. If you're educating the marketplace on being able to ask for more, more support, you're empowering moms themselves to come full circle and either work with you or at least go to their gym environment and demand the care and the, you know, the support and the education of the trainers that they're trusting their bodies with. I think that, you know, this whole conversation has highlighted the fact that there is so much need for change. on so many levels from the certifications to what our big box gyms are allowing to happen under their noses when mums do walk into the gym and then going trainers that know better and mums that now know better, you are the army that we need to continue to lead the change and eventually get those people that we need to listen to listen and make change from the top down. I see us as being the... the ants, we're all coming together with an army of the ants and we're changing things from the bottom up and eventually those people, little parts of people will start to listen and will create change from the top down as well as the bottom up.
Mish:
Yeah, and with that, like I was saying before about changes, if you're a personal trainer, and you've been training women to that, then you might be feeling right now, shame,
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
that you're doing something wrong. And, you know, just like I said about that, working with violent men and giving them the kudos, you know, like, I understand that when she told me that I was on the verge of a prolapse, all I could think of was like, all the women I've been training, I've probably been harming
Jen:
Mmm.
Mish:
because I've been training them exactly how I was taught to train. I damaged myself and I was on my way damaging all these other people. So there's a lot of shame that whether you share it or not, that like, you can feel guilty and so it can be very easy to put it aside and go, Oh yeah, I don't work with women or, you know, what I'm doing is okay. And, you know, so I respectfully. look you in the eye and see you as a person and know that doing things differently when you've done things the same way for a long time can be really, really hard. But the benefits are there. So it can be hard to do things differently.
Jen:
Mm, I do agree with that. I think we, I always like to come back to the phrase, you don't know what you don't know. And
Mish:
Yep.
Jen:
it's no one's fault that you don't know. You just simply didn't know until maybe today, or you've been thinking about this for a while and it's like, oh, now this is a kick up your bum to go do something different.
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
And
Mish:
and when we know better,
Jen:
there's
Mish:
we do
Jen:
no judgment
Mish:
better.
Jen:
on our part exactly. When we know better, we do better.
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
Absolutely.
Mish:
So
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
I mean, I'm, I'm always learning.
Jen:
Yeah,
Mish:
You
Jen:
I
Mish:
know,
Jen:
think that's the more that you know, the more you don't know. And eventually you let yourself off the hook for all the things that you don't know, because you're just like, fuck it, I cannot know everything. And
Mish:
Yeah
Jen:
again, that's where we lean on our women's health and pelvic health physio partners, especially
Mish:
Yeah.
Jen:
in this space, because we don't know everything. We don't need to know everything. We need to have really great two way relationships with our women's health physio partners, so that we can give our mom clients the best possible care. And it's
Mish:
you.
Jen:
almost a relief when you go, okay, this is what I know and what I. If I don't know the rest, I'll go find it. I don't need to know it all.
Mish:
Yep,
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
yep, absolutely,
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
absolutely.
Jen:
Mish, to start to wrap us up, what would one thing, what would you say to a mum that is listening, that is experiencing anything that is, I'm gonna say the word normal, or not normal for where she was prior to having babies?
Mish:
I'll just go to the doctor, get a referral. You know, if money is an issue, you know, there are options with through the GP through the care plan. But you'll need to take the initiative to ask for because the doctor might not know your doctor might not know the difference between a physio and
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
Um, you know, so not everyone at the moment can afford to, and I see that I saw that again, again, I don't think it has changed at all is that women often put their needs below their children's, they will make sure that their children has everything. And they'll get around to their own needs. it whatever is going on, it's much easier to work on it at those beginning stages when something feels a bit funky, can be much more a harder journey later on or by ignoring it and and you're worth it.
Jen:
Mm.
Mish:
Your your babies will grow up and leave home like mine. And then you but what you will have is the body that you have got to to keep going to hopefully in your eighties. So, you know, you're doing great things by exercising, but if there's other shit going on, you know, give yourself the gift of working it out.
Jen:
Yeah, I love that. And to the trainers that are working with the mums, what would you say to them?
Mish:
get on board with Jen with Mum Safe.
Jen:
Ahaha
Mish:
She hasn't she hasn't paid me to say that
Jen:
I did
Mish:
or
Jen:
not.
Mish:
asked or asked me to say that but you know one of the reasons I just love what Jen has created is it is you know it is bringing it's just making space for everyone and it's a it's a movement I'm just so proud of you Jen and what you've Um, yeah, it's, it's fantastic. So, but definitely if that's not where you want to be, then obvious, the obvious choice is to start with one of my courses.
Jen:
Cool, which leads me to, one, where can people find you? And two, the opportunity to gift something to anyone listening that wants to find out more about the way that you work or sample some of your goodness.
Mish:
Yeah, sure. So my website is very easy to find. It's mishright.com. So that's pretty easy. And on there I have all my education that I have available. I have a lot of courses with fitness education online.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
All the ones that have CCs are found there. But On my own website, I have a number of master classes that don't have CCs, but that I like to call them a quick deep dive. They're about an hour. Um, and they're a bit of fun and they tackle a topic, um, whether it be periods, menopause, um, the one I'm going to record later today. I've been working on is training to fatigue. So how to work with, and this is not just for trainers, but for, um, women. working who experienced fatigue for whatever reason. And then I have my signature course, which is evolution, which is a course for women. Now fitness professionals can buy it and use it doesn't have ccs. And that's because it is a program that I've created for for so when I was training women, I needed them to know information.
Jen:
Yeah.
Mish:
But when those women turned up to train with me, they were not in the head space to learn. So I wish I had this course that I could give them to use to learn so they could bring back the information we could work on it together. So it is that learning to read, how to drive your body. And sometimes that's really difficult to teach or to learn in the fitness environment because there's so much going
Jen:
Absolutely.
Mish:
on, especially. especially with young kids. So I haven't told you about this, Jen, but Evolution is going to be launched next month
Jen:
Fantastic.
Mish:
as three different courses. So at the moment, you can buy it as the full one. The full one means that it has the three foundation topics, something that all women need to know.
Jen:
Yep.
Mish:
And then the final three are periods, pregnancy postnatal, and menopause. So there's been feedback that, you know, I'm menopausal. I don't want the
Jen:
You don't need it all
Mish:
other
Jen:
at
Mish:
one.
Jen:
once or you don't
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
need everything. Yep.
Mish:
yeah, or I've never had children, you know, but we don't want children menopause is way. So it's going to be evolution light. So,
Jen:
I love it.
Mish:
and it means that the top is going to be cheaper too. So let's set up a mom safe,
Jen:
code.
Mish:
you know, code
Jen:
Let's do that.
Mish:
and get a discount on that. So
Jen:
we
Mish:
I'll
Jen:
will
Mish:
let
Jen:
make sure
Mish:
you know.
Jen:
it's in the notes, absolutely.
Mish:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, so that means for trainers who are listening to this, you can become a partner and on sell that course. Or if you're listening to this and want to know how to learn to read your body, you can just go and go and do it yourself. And what I the feedback I've got from trainers is they buy it. And it helps them with the words to teaching those concepts of posture, breathing, pelvic floor, you know, movement, because, you know, I'm a teacher.
Jen:
Yep. And we've got a few Mumsafe trainers that have jumped on your, on board of your partnerships. So that, that,
Mish:
Yeah,
Jen:
yeah, credit,
Mish:
that's
Jen:
credit to
Mish:
right.
Jen:
you, Mish. Thank you for making my first guest podcast experience so pleasant and wonderful. You've been amazing as always. And I 100% appreciate everything that you do and the support that you've given me over the years. Thank you.
Mish:
Hmm. Thank you, Jen. And you know, like, we've been in this game for a while now
Jen:
I know
Mish:
talking about
Jen:
we're like it's all the
Mish:
I
Jen:
young
Mish:
want to say,
Jen:
ones coming
Mish:
I
Jen:
through now.
Mish:
don't want to say it, but yeah. So, you know, I like the idea that we are role models for here we were working in competitive businesses.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Mish:
And
Jen:
Scared of each other in our own ways.
Mish:
in
Jen:
Ha
Mish:
our own
Jen:
ha
Mish:
way,
Jen:
ha!
Mish:
that's right, intimidated. And yet look at us now, like, and how much more impact we have together as a force.
Jen:
Absolutely.
Mish:
So I lay down the gauntlet for
Jen:
I
Mish:
all
Jen:
love
Mish:
the
Jen:
it.
Mish:
other trainers to embrace their competition and create the movement.
Jen:
Yeah, as we like to say, it's collaboration over competition, every step
Mish:
Absolutely,
Jen:
of the way.
Mish:
absolutely.
Jen:
Thanks, Mish.
Mish:
Thank you.
Jen:
Take care.
