Jen:
Glen, welcome to the MuSafe Movement Podcast.
Glen:
Jen Dugard, thank you for having me. I must say, if you had have told me back in the day that I would be featuring on a Mumsafe podcast, I'd be like, huh.
Jen:
Well, you have a small person in your life
Glen:
I do have
Jen:
and
Glen:
a small person in my life, but I'm not a mum.
Jen:
you're not a mum.
Glen:
And her mum would actually probably say that I don't keep her as safe as I probably should. It's like, ah, don't worry about
Jen:
Okay.
Glen:
the helmet. You'll be right.
Jen:
And now you live in Queensland, you don't
Glen:
Gotta
Jen:
need
Glen:
climb...
Jen:
to worry about the helmet either, so.
Glen:
Gotta climb the tree.
Jen:
Nice. So I guess given, given you just said that the Mumsafe Movement podcast is for trainers that work with mums and also mums themselves. So a lot of our audience are exercise professionals who are working with mums. So it is, does have a business element that crosses over very nicely with the technical element in certain episodes and you're a business episode.
Glen:
Well, thank you for having me.
Jen:
Thank you. So we start every podcast with three questions. So One is to offer us a word to share how you're showing up today. And if it's been a shit fight of a morning, it does not have to be a positive word. The next one is a win, so something you're winning at and something you're working on at the moment.
Glen:
Uh, so, and first of all, I'm very conscious of making sure the response is authentic, but I am genuinely lit is how I feel. I've been up since
Jen:
Okay.
Glen:
four creativity has just been for days. I go through these creative sprints where like inspiration strikes and it doesn't end. And Sarah knows she's just like, okay, I'm locked in a, I'm locked in a tunnel until that energy resolves itself through whatever, you know, creative work needs to be birthed. feeling lit and excited about having this conversation as well, because it's a good chance to get up and go out, I suppose, as opposed to going in. What was the second one? Something cool that just happened or something?
Jen:
A win, yeah,
Glen:
A win.
Jen:
a win.
Glen:
So a win. Just got back from the UK. We got all of the founders and a bunch of the executive team all in one place. It had been over seven years, we calculated, since we'd all been in the same room together. I had a solid week how to take over the world kind of stuff. And that was epic. And I would say probably a catalyst for feeling lit at the moment. And then what am I working on?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
So we are rapidly AI enabling our key person of influence accelerator program to use generative AI to be able to... pre-build a lot of the grunt work and the assets that our clients would normally have had to spend six to 12 months kind of grinding through. We are very soon to be able to release a pretty major update that will take all that time, literally from six to 12 months to like hours of, at least to get the material clear. And then, okay, zip it up and send it off to a designer to tend into a brochure or whatever it is. And I got to say, cause obviously, as you know, I've been in the trenches for a decade, working with people through their drafts and versions and iterations as they really struggle to turn the mess of their mind into something like really great that the market that I sense the market would respond to, and we've put about 20 different avatars put through the beta. that we've got internally running at the moment and the output that is coming out of this thing instantly with just the right prompts. And I think that's the key that the right way to train this thing. The output is just melting my brain in terms of the, the quality, like it is consistently spitting out quality that only 5% of our clients would get to in six months, right. Um, and it's just doing it. like that. And so I actually, I actually think, sorry to go on about this, but
Jen:
No,
Glen:
like,
Jen:
it's great. It's cool.
Glen:
but I, but I actually think I'm actually now starting to wonder as to what do I need to do to inoculate against the autoimmune response that people have when they, when they see something that could be so perfect for them. But if they're like, Oh, but I didn't go through the grind of creating it all. So I don't necessarily own it yet. How do I get people to go
Jen:
It's.
Glen:
actually, you know what, let me just get it out there in the world and make the money and see the results and make it my own over the coming, the coming months of actually, of actually doing it. Like I used to get all the objections of, oh, it's so hard to do and I'm lost and I've lost perspective and I'm overwhelmed. And now it's going to be like, yeah, it doesn't feel like mine. So I'm also not going to do anything with it. Like,
Jen:
It's interesting
Glen:
you know,
Jen:
that you say that because the first thing that comes up to me is that authenticity of the fact that you've done it yourself, right? So it's a really important part of the conversation.
Glen:
Yeah, it's weird. And yet the most successful businesses will go to a brand agency. Like Steve Jobs didn't write, think different, right? He didn't write that Superbowl ad that catalyzed their brand from unknown to the top of everybody's mind. And so, you know, I think to some degree business, some small business owners have this kind of, um, romantic notion. of I've got to do everything myself. Cause kind of that's what I was taught at school. And anything that's not that is like not, not the impregnated pure and work ethic that I've kind of been trained on. And how to cut, what to let go of, right? Cause I imagine, you know, the ad agency come with the marketing agency comes back to Steve Jobs with the think different campaign. And he's like, that was briefed so well. It is so aligned with the company values. It's so aligned with my personal values. It inspires and brings a tear to the eye of every single employee. We didn't have the expertise internally to come up with that, but it is perfect. And that's, I think what we need to be looking for. And that's what I hope. My hope is that this system will be able to do that for people where they sit there and go, if I went and spend. spent $100,000 on an agency to try and unpack my entire, my brand, my assets, my architecture, how it fits together with my purpose and my mission and my values, which it all does. It's all designed to, to absolutely do that. But you know, my, my real hope is when we get our first beta users on this, that they sit there and go. I, I feel like this is a gift that, you know, a future version of me is coming back and showing me. the work that I was to do over the coming years, but give it to me all in one heap. Anyway, food for
Jen:
Yeah.
Glen:
a future Glenn, but that's kind of what's lighting me up and what we're working on right now.
Jen:
think that Glenn, what I got from that was it's what you're creating is leveling the playing field for small business owners.
Glen:
Well, it levels the playing field. Here's the thing. A lot of business owners, they're really not competing with everyone, right?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
They're competing with a small amount of people, and often in their local area. So leveling the playing field is probably even too big a notion, because the playing field isn't necessarily leveled, still isn't leveled for them, but to get small business owners out of their own way. Right. Most small business owners are doing it because they've got a craft. They've got an expertise. They've got some sort of a passion that they love doing. And it's not usually like, I love marketing and I love sales and I, I love business systems and design, right? There, there are clearly some people that do love that. And they become like MBAs and executives and like the hardcore entrepreneurs for the sake of entrepreneurship, but they don't really care. what industry they're in and what they're building, it's the game of business that they love. And that's where you get serial entrepreneurs are often doing different things in different ways. And yet there's this whole much larger, much, much larger group of people that are the practitioners that love doing the thing. They're the trainers, they're the massage therapists, they're the physios, they're the carers, they're real estate agents, they're the lawyers that actually love the work. And yet... If they don't build a good business around that, they'll love themselves doing the work to, to broke or to much less wealth and prosperity that they could make if they were able to package that into some form of a leverage system. And so, um, that's a hard shift to make. And I think just the more we can, the more we can get people's fears, doubts, insecurities, and also just lack of knowledge out of their way and go, you just do what you do. wrap this stuff around you, kind of like an Iron Man suit, where all of a sudden, right, in the context of your competitors, you've got superpowers and great, right, it makes it way easier to attract customers, easy to attract a few team, brand gets cut through, customers wanna buy, they wanna buy more from you, they'll buy premium packages because of how all this stuff is working together. And so I think it's less kind of existential than... leveling the playing field. It's more like, hang on, there's just a few things that if you get them right in your business, totally lets you win the game. You don't need to become the biggest in the world. You don't need to become the biggest in the country. You don't need to become the biggest in your state necessarily even to be super successful and
Jen:
Yep.
Glen:
prosperous. So I suppose it's just where you're at.
Jen:
Yeah. All right. Let's circle around. I love that question because it can go anywhere.
Glen:
Anyway.
Jen:
Absolutely anywhere. Tell us who you are. I mean, obviously we've done your intro, but it sounds very impressive. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Maybe you didn't see the intro that was sent to me. Tell me a little bit about, you know, what your childhood was like in terms of growing up that led you into entrepreneurship
Glen:
Yes, when
Jen:
to
Glen:
I
Jen:
then...
Glen:
was a child, yeah,
Jen:
Well, you didn't have a traditional childhood, did
Glen:
I didn't
Jen:
you?
Glen:
know. No, you know that I didn't. Well, so I guess I think of myself as, I don't think of myself as a business owner. I think of myself as a business geek. Like I'm one of those guys that does love business, but not any kind of business. I specifically love business that, you know, unlocks this sense of freedom, this sense of fulfillment, this sense of all this experience of financial freedom and liberty. Um, and, and that when business is sort of being used as a force for good, like I really liked that vein of business and the world I play in isn't with the people that want to build the billion dollar companies, it's the people that want to build the awesome lifestyle businesses, like people like you, right? They want to be the author, the speaker, the commentator. You've got a great business you're creating cascading leverage. You know, it's meaningful. It's fulfilling. It lets you to do a hell of a lot more of what you want, when you want with who you want, uh, like that's, that's the, like the world that I. But I play it and you know, when I think back in terms of like, what are some of the relevant markers to lead me here? The first is definitely when I was a kid. So between when I was six, from six to 14, my family sailed around the world for seven years. So my dad was in the Navy, he was a shipwright building boats and my mom was a hairdresser. And dad went to my Nana, who's since passed, but my mother's mom, and said, Like, I'm obviously paraphrasing, I wasn't there, but said like, there's something missing. Like it's not family, like family's good. Works, I like what I do, but like there's something bigger than that missing. And my Nana, I hear this story, like it just inspired me so much the first time I heard it. She just said, well, what would you do if you weren't afraid? And she didn't say it as a rhetorical question, right? She's like, no, what would you do? Right? Wouldn't let him off the hook. And he squirmed and then kind of went, oh, I'd retire from the Navy, build a boat and sail around the world with Gloria and Glenn. She just stayed silent. Shut the hell up, right? To the point where like she could watch him, his face kind of contort and recalibrate and it's like, kaching. Oh, thanks mom. Kind of a thing. Mom-in-law. And off he went and did just that. And so I was 14 by the time I came home. And so why is this relevant? Well, like you got to imagine a kid standing, you know, at the bottom of the pyramid, standing at the top of the World Trade Center, you know, in Cyprus when the first Gulf War broke out, in Galapagos patting hundred year old tortoises, you know, like real freedom, real adventure and freedom. Right? Like we don't like where we are. We pull up the anchor, we go somewhere else, right? Where the permitting, but that was about it. Like real freedom, freedom to a level that I don't think most people ever get. And it was just built into my kind of brain as like, oh, this is life. Then we came back to Australia to a large degree, cause I was like, I want to go to school. This is lonely, right? Cause it was the other side of the coin. It wasn't all, you know, raspberries and rainbows. And We got back to Australia and my parents like hit the commercial reality of trying to from zero momentum standing start get set back up again in Australia. Like we weren't wealthy, I was wearing second hand clothes till I was 16. We were doing this on dad's pension, which is not the kind of money that you just go out and start buying new houses with and setting up schools and furniture. We didn't have that kind of abundance at the time. And I saw both of my parents grind, like
Jen:
Hmm.
Glen:
really grind. Like the kind of grind that you imagine people, like your great grandparents doing, like post depression or depression grind, maybe not that much, but it felt like that. It was hard to experience and there was an energy around it. It wasn't fun anymore. I was working at McDonald's, which like, just wanted to like. I'm
Jen:
Thanks
Glen:
like,
Jen:
for watching!
Glen:
this, this sucks, right? This, this whole vision I had of coming home and having this epic fun life at school was not manifesting itself to a very large degree because of the money or the lack thereof. And one day dad just suggested, cause I had all my scuba gear. I wasn't qualified because you had to be 16, I think, or 15 to get a license. And I was 14, but he said, Hey, there's a race coming up this weekend. Cause we still lived at the yoke club. Why don't you go and, uh, offered a. clean the hulls of people's boats because boats get dirty and they go slow and they're dirty and everyone wants them clean. But if you're a boat owner doing all right for yourself, you don't really want to have to jump over and get covered in filth clean in your own hull. So he's me 14 year old with a fluoro sign saying, you know, I can't remember exactly something like, you know, Glenn's go fast boats are boat
Jen:
I
Glen:
cleaning
Jen:
love it.
Glen:
or something. Right. And I did 1000 bucks that weekend. Right. And something went off in my brain that has never left me. At the time, it was definitely the money. But with a little bit of reflection, it was the first time I felt that I really had some control of my own value,
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
my own destiny, and that I could support my family. I could actually help. And I could help in a way that was different to my parents. It wasn't a grind. It was still kind of manual labor, but it felt like. super leverage to me compared to McDonald's $15 an hour or whatever miserable amount it was back then. And so this was this sort of epiphany that, oh, while, and this is on reflection, I didn't think this at the time, but while my dad's vehicle for freedom and adventure was a boat, it was then that my vehicle for freedom and adventure became the business and business
Jen:
Okay.
Glen:
in general. And I'm like, I want to know everything there is to know about this boat. Right.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
I want to know how to sell this business. I want to know how to fix this business. I want to know everything there is to know about the same way that dad knows everything there is to know about sailing and navigating and building boats. I applied myself to doing that for business. And so now we've built, you know, programs and accelerators and tools and bits of technology and all sorts of stuff that, that helps other entrepreneurs on, on their journey, but that's kind of where it, where it started, I suppose.
Jen:
I like it. I like the boat story. I am. While you were talking, I was thinking about. Becoming a key person of influence and trying to then link up your boat story to the business that you're in now, because I know there's been businesses along the way, and if we had four hours, we could talk about all of them, but we don't. So from an outsider looking in, you're now known as the entrepreneur or the. the key person of influence and helping other people to become key persons of influence. Let's start to go down that road. Does that sound about?
Glen:
Yeah, yeah, totally. So definitely, my business partner, Daniel Priestley, wrote a book called Become a Key Person of Influence. And look, the short story is I just cared about building awesome businesses
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
and helping others build awesome businesses. And when I was young, early 20s, it was really agnostic. It's still pretty agnostic in terms of how to do that best. And so I read every book. And there's different approaches. Like you've got to build a bank. great culture and it's all about the right team and no, you read the E-Myth and it's all about systems and getting that right so you can work on the business, not in the business, all these sorts of things. And a very long story short, we found that by far out of all of the strategies that we see working, especially for businesses under about three million in revenue, so small little businesses that want to grow, including like super startups, is there is something like incredibly powerful. about the founder brand, the personal
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
brand of the business owner. We would call it the key person of influence. Like over and over and over and over, we just saw businesses that would start up and scale up so much faster when the business owner was willing to be the one out the front, publicly kind of evangelizing their vision, their values, and the value proposition of the company. Not in a Hey, I got like my own version of the cure to cancer right here. And I'm here telling everyone about it type of an energy. Um, so really quite selfless in its approach, like I'm visible, not because I want to be, but because I need to be to get your attention, to help you understand that I've, I've got this thing that can, that can help you, right? Cause if you genuinely had something that could help so many people got asked the question, well, why are you hiding? behind your business, you know, what's, what's the real motivation there? Right. So that's a whole, that's a whole other story. And so when we discovered that, ah, and a big part of it is trust, right. P people need to try feel trust before they're going to want to buy something from someone. Um, and usually that trust is built in like, or used to be that trust was built in like, well, let's have a meeting and then another meeting and then another, let me send you a proposal and then let's have a conversation about that. And it's kind of like in those meetings, trust is being built. It's like, oh, this person's consistent. I like their stories and they're still around and their team are good. And okay, we trust them enough to buy from them. Thanks forever.
Jen:
Does.
Glen:
And that, and that operational drag that comes from that time invested to try and get to that one sale, the amount of unpaid energy to get to that one sale. If you would actually add that up as a cost, not only is the business going backwards for the business of course, isn't growing. because the founder is having, the owner's having to compensate with so much of their own time and then they hire salespeople to try and compensate with that, but then they're not very effective and they're very expensive. So that becomes a huge cost as well. And so there are all these sort of invisible forces that keep a business small. The founder brand takes, leverages all that trust through platforms like media platforms like YouTube and Facebook and like whatever, TikTok, like whatever floats your boat. wherever their audience is, where their audience can watch them and listen to them and read stuff of theirs and, uh, you know, listen to podcasts and all this sort of stuff to build this relationship and build this trust in advance in a way that takes no time of the founder other than the production of, you know, those particular assets that do that particular work. And so what we found is that in this overall mission of just building cool businesses, if we, if we found someone that was already good at what they do, but they'd hit a plateau and then we wrap them in this methodology that we develop for building that founder brand for becoming that key person of influence. They'd pop like the best. And you kind of hear that until you see it until you're in, you know, you've been in the community, you see the pops happen, but It is literally like I am no green thumb. I'd like to think I was, but we tend to kill plants in this family.
Jen:
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
Glen:
You know how you leave a plant inside for too long and it just starts to go gray and then brown and it's like,
Jen:
shrivels.
Glen:
oh, the poor little thing. And then you just stick it outside. That's all you do and it just all turns on again. Like that, like often night and day, you get someone that's good at what they do. They apply these principles. It's just like sticking them out in the sun and just everything turns on for them. And that's... super fulfilling, it's super rewarding. And so that's the book, that's our program, we run accelerators. When I was talking at the start about all the AI stuff, that's all being built into how we produce those key people of influence.
Jen:
Okay, so if we we've talked, we've used the term key person of influence a lot, what does that even mean? If someone doesn't know it to the familiarity that we do.
Glen:
Yeah, well, I guess I tried to explain that just then, which was, so first of all, it's the founder brand. It's the, it's the, when I say, okay, so let's unpack brand. So basically it's the business owner being visible in the industry, sharing a message, right. And we call that influence because they're sharing that message through those platforms that I mentioned, it creates some scale. Cause now instead of just talking to the people that they know, they're actually reaching a far, far wider audience. So by definition, they're having more influence, right. And it's not everyone in their business that's going to do that, right? It's them, right? You're not going to get, you know, your virtual assistant to be that evangelist, to be that visible person. And then if you look at a hundred people in your industry, it's probably only five other people that want to do that too. Right. Let's say just let's say random sample, which kind of means to be the key person of influence, to be that visible player. You go from competing with a hundred people to competing with five. And the five are really the ones carving up the vast majority of the pie. And the rest is left for the people that aren't willing to step up to represent, if you like. And I think that's right. I think I would trust, well, no, I know I trust people that are willing to publicly represent what they stand for or what they believe in, whether it's an idea or a product or a service or whatever. more than I trust the people that are clearly just trying to package something up to sell it because they want to make money. It's like, yeah, I prefer the people that are doing both. So it's these owners, a key person of influence is an owner that is visibly representing their offer to the world, right? And they become the best spokesperson for their business and brand. And it doesn't just work with customers, right? They influence the media. as a result, I feature in more media, they get more credible. They create great partnerships. You know, they're able to start working with big brands as you've experienced. And on and on it goes. And all of a sudden it's like, cause there's this question of like, well, what should I focus on in the business? Um, and the question is resolved by, well, if you want to build one of these lifestyle businesses, part of what you need to do is good work, right. And, and be the practitioner. But there's this other part of what you do that if you're going to pick anything else to do in the business. You might as well choose to be the key person of influence to create that leveraged impact. And if there's one more way that I think might make sense to refine it is what we're looking for, when people think, oh, I've got to build a business, it's such a catch-all generic term. It's not a very useful guide. I think though, I use the word like high-low, a high leveraged organization. Right? So the moment that someone sees their business as a leveraged organization. So what I mean by leverage is like the whole lever, give
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it and I can move the world. Right. The, the idea behind a lever, it's a tool is a small amount of energy in a large amount of energy out, but small input, large result. Um, and that's what a business should be, but most business owners lived experience is not. leveraged. It's not a small amount of energy in a large amount of money energy out. It's the opposite. It's a huge amount of energy in not feeling very rewarded on the other side. If they were to audit that, they would see that they haven't in fact built a leverage system. They might say, oh, I have a business. But if we actually unpack it and judge it on its merits of leverage,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
it's not right, which is why it's hard work and a struggle. And so one of the major tools of leverage is how do we get the attention of our market here? How do we build demand? What is the most effective way to do that? Do we run ads? Do we have online video funnels? Right. Do we build online quizzes? Like all these different tactics for trying to attract new customers, which is a huge part of what's needed in business, the most leveraged way to do that, the least amount that you can do to create the largest. turn is to build that founder brand is to be that visible evangelist that key person of influence that people go huh i'm gonna work with them
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
don't even consider the competition anymore they're just like i like the message i like the values this person and their business are going to solve my problems that's what i was looking for they've done it with a lot of certainty and a lot of trust i don't want to spend my time looking around like that's what i was looking for i'm in and in that moment the competition becomes irrelevant Super leverage. Right, so I guess, I don't know, does that answer the question?
Jen:
It answers the question and what I want to do now is take it onto a really small scale. So what I heard you say before was that the key person, KPI concept works in a very big arena and it also works in a very small arena. Now we're working with a lot of exercise professionals that have small local based businesses. And what I feel is like they need to be the very first person that anyone talks about when it comes to working with moms. So. If that's the case, what is something that I, we're gonna say solo business owner, maybe they've got a VA, maybe they don't. If we think about, we could start to cover off some of the five P's in terms of where they should start and what they should do if that is their business avatar rather than a bigger business.
Glen:
Yep, got it. So absolutely this fractals all the way up and all the way down, right? But people won't know why to bother doing it unless like it kind of makes sense holistically. So I think you'd agree, like let's go super specific for your listeners. I think you'd agree that even if you're in the local area, when it comes to like being a new mom and all of the concerns of getting one's body back in order, because not just the outer body, right? The inner body. in order after that, they're going to Google, right? Like, is this person who I'm going to trust my everything with? Now, don't get me wrong, you're going to bump into people and maybe have some chats with them at the coffee shop. And that's all that person needs because they had that connection. But that's just going to limit your ability to only work with people that you can speak to. And then you end up running from, Oh God, I got to speak to people. Oh, I got to do the work. Oh, I'm going to run the business. Oh, I got to speak to people. And it's just, you end up manic, low leverage, good intentions, trying to could do, do good work and just burn out too much. And then you end up doing nothing. Well, and then this is how the great irony of like health providers or anyone in the health and wellness space starts a business and it ends up the opposite of healthy and well, because
Jen:
Yep.
Glen:
they're buggered. Right. So. So I get it. And this is our bread and butter, right? This is the majority of people that we work with on our accelerators. We don't work with the people that are like the super big businesses, right? Also, cause I would say once they're a super big business, the impact of being the founder has less impact. Unless you're gonna go full on like an Elon Musk type of a figure, but in small business, even micro business, even just a little bit goes a super long way. And so the first thing, so we have this book, Key Person of Influence, there are five steps, like five parts of the Iron Man suit. If we go with that metaphor, it might not be the best metaphor for your audience,
Jen:
I like
Glen:
but
Jen:
it, it's
Glen:
forgive
Jen:
good.
Glen:
me. All right, so the
Jen:
They've
Glen:
first
Jen:
got
Glen:
is
Jen:
young
Glen:
pitch.
Jen:
children who like
Glen:
Got
Jen:
superheroes.
Glen:
it, they'll get it, right? So the first is pitch. Pitch is a catchall word for how you communicate your value, right? So for most people, practitioners, they could at what they do. They know this stuff backwards. But for most of the mums, they've never come across this problem before, and they're dealing with a million other new things that are stressing them out. Trying to have deep knowledge, understanding, intuition around their body is just not at the forefront of their mind. And so there's kind of the onus of responsibility is now on the practitioner to be able to super powerfully create a paradigm. Like walk people into these women into a new way of thinking about their body from top to bottom, starting at first principles, right? Not just starting at, oh, you've got to do these kinds of sit-ups and if you don't do it this way, it's going to hurt you, you know, whatever. Like no, that's too tactical. It misses the point. They won't understand why. Whereas if we can get the pitch that acts more of a, and in the book, there are some examples and obviously in our programs, we go into a lot more detail as to. how to think about telling that story in a way that's perfectly tuned for their audience that gets people in. So whether you're in the cafe or whether you're on a podcast or whether you're doing a video, you kind of know how to start. So you're not just talking about your product or service or business or what you do anymore. You're talking about this layer of ideas and principles and philosophies that really add value, add the value to what you do. We'll give you an example. Fitbit, right? That's the physical device that counts your steps, right? You can imagine, I forget, well, let's say 10 years ago, it's like, well, why would I wanna count my steps, right? Just talking about the product alone isn't enough. Oh, I don't know why I need to count my steps. Oh, it's waterproof. Like more features doesn't help. It's not until we go up a level to the realm of pitch and pitching at the level of ideas, not at the level of product. that we can start talking about this notion that, okay, if you walk a thousand steps a day for a healthy life. And it's like, oh, I don't have to go to the like gym or CrossFit or whatever. Now, regardless of what anyone's opinions are about CrossFit or it's not CrossFit, sorry, Fitbit or its claims, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about that when someone gets it in their head of, oh, I'd be fitter, healthier and happier if I walk 10,000 steps a day. You know what? I'm gonna commit to that. I'm gonna do it. They go out and they start walking. They're like, how many steps is this Bob? I don't know John. And it's like, oh shit, we need one of those step counters. And all of a sudden, the right pitch leads to a natural desire for the right product. That can also show up in a way where it's like the right pitch can help a woman understand why a traditional approach to fitness is just no longer off the table. Forget about it. And all of a sudden there is a new paradigm required, at least for the coming years, that is like non-negotiable if they want to achieve, you know, X, Y, and Z. So, so simply that, like forget about being the, the visible evangelist, just being able to guide people into that story is not just going to make them want to work with you faster. It's going to make them want to commit to the process for the longer haul. They're going to be more motivated. not just for the next day or two, but for the next month's because you've helped them see the world quite differently. Does that make sense?
Jen:
It does make sense. I'm trying to think about how to simplify it even further. So for example, if I said, Hey, my name is Jen, I'm a personal trainer specializing in making sure all moms return to exercise safely and effectively.
Glen:
Well, great. That's an answer to how you how you do what you do. That's like, OK, so that's super tactical, right?
Jen:
Okay,
Glen:
That's
Jen:
cool.
Glen:
like walk into a room and like, oh, how do you answer the question? What do you do? Like, that's a great first step. But I wouldn't say that's necessarily going to be the thing that's going to bring a huge amount of transformation. That's definitely part of it. And I guess this also plays to a level of motivation, right? Like, would you say that your listeners wanna make an impact?
Jen:
Absolutely.
Glen:
Yeah, great. So my concern that is if I start talking about how to walk into a shop and answer the question, what do you do? I think it's hard for people to connect to how does that lead to me creating an impact? I get it, I could do that. Like I guess what I wanna try and convey is where the influence actually comes from. Does it require you to be able to walk in and be able to answer the question, what do you do? Absolutely, right?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
But then what? Right, because I think most people can answer that these days,
Jen:
I don't
Glen:
right?
Jen:
know that they
Glen:
But
Jen:
can but I'm
Glen:
no.
Jen:
happy to keep going on with because I think what I just articulated there was an if they can't even answer that they got to nail that first right?
Glen:
Oh, look, okay. Okay. That's beautiful. Right? Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for thank you for framing that up. If they can't if you feel if you're listening to this and you feel in any way uncomfortable, having a clear and concise answer to the question, what do you do? Where you can say it in the same way to your family to your friends at a dinner party and to a total stranger at a networking event or someone that you meet at the cafe. If that is not just step one easy. You absolutely want to solve that. Right. That is that is the starting point of this whole thing. And I would say, thank you, Jen, it is the first signal that Oh, we're a bit off track here, I need to, I need to, I need to think this through and get this right. You go through the process of being able to get that right. And we if you want, Jen, we can get into like how to do that. we can we can give some I can give some tips on that. But that then becomes the door to this much larger opportunity to change the way people think, as opposed to just like, I get what you do. You're like a trainer, but for moms, it's like, oh, I see the world differently now. And I guess that's the that's the dream.
Jen:
So why don't we talk about that? Because I think the other bit, like there's plenty enough stuff floating around on the things that I've put out into the world to help people to articulate that sentence. If they wanted to start to go that little bit deeper, what are,
Glen:
Mm.
Jen:
let's say two or three, and I know we can't, you know, you guys do workshops on this that take an hour in itself, but what would be three things that they could think about or an architecture that they can consider?
Glen:
what to be able to go deeper into their
Jen:
that
Glen:
pitch
Jen:
next
Glen:
and start
Jen:
level deeper.
Glen:
changing the way people think about the problem.
Jen:
Absolutely.
Glen:
Oh, that is a deep one. Let me try and think about how I can do this in a concise way.
Jen:
And if we can't, that's fine.
Glen:
No, here it is. So the sentence starter is this, right? This is just a very simple approach, but it's probably as good as we'll be able to get
Jen:
I
Glen:
on
Jen:
like
Glen:
a short
Jen:
it.
Glen:
podcast,
Jen:
Yeah.
Glen:
is this. If you think it's about fitness for moms,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
you've missed the point. Right. So the architecture there, if you think it's about blank and in that blank is your own explanation of what you do. Right. So we run business accelerators. So I would say, if you think it's about doing a business accelerator, right, or some business course, you've missed the point.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
Now, if we just freeze frame on that, right, because often we're so close to what we do, we miss the forest from the trees and we get so focused on, no, but I am a fitness trainer and coach, but specifically for moms and that is what it's all about. It's like, no, you've missed the point. No, no, it really is. Right. And it's kind of like, we stay stuck at that functional level. So one of the, one of the things I learned is no one, I mean, not my family, what have you, but like the market, they don't care about me. They don't care about my product. They don't care about my service. What they care about. is what they want. They care about the result, the outcome, solving their problems, getting more of what they want. That is all they care about. That is where they perceive all of the value. Working with me in whatever way my product or service shows up is just a means to an end. So this question, if you think it's about my product or service,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
if you think it's about this thing that I do, you've missed the point. What that does is it kind of like in the in the practitioner's own mind, it's like, okay, it's not about that. Which by the way, is the thing that you'd introduce yourself at the cafe about. Like, so, so you know, I'm a, I'm a coach and I help moms. Great. That's that first layer
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
to go to the next layer. It's like, but it's not about that. Oh, what is it about? And all of a sudden that doorway opens for us to start this story about what it really is. And again, there's no super magic around this. Like in the same way that Fitbit was 10,000 steps to a healthy life. It's kind of like already setting the scene of the destination. If you think that your customer is trying to get to a destination, not a physical one, they're not trying to get from Melbourne to Sydney, but potentially an emotional one, certainly a physical one.
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
Right. What is that? Where are they trying to get to? Right. to the point where you just don't articulate a list of benefits. Oh, they feel fit and healthy and all they feel energetically good and all, you know, their, their body feels like it did before birth. And you can kind of create this like, Oh, I'm just going to be a robot that goes through a list of dot points because I have no real sophistication and being able to consolidate that or condense that into a real powerful message. Right.
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
And again, I can't, I don't have the space to be able to
Jen:
Yeah.
Glen:
go as a fair bit of pre-work that needs to happen to have all the stuff unpacked to be able to do that. But when you're able to transition from what you do to, but if you think it's about that, you've missed the point. To it's really about this thing that you're trying to achieve. And then you can go off and explain some of the mistakes that people make that stop them from achieving that. And you start building this more of a mental model. that your audience are then able to go, oh, I make those mistakes. I thought I'd just go to CrossFit, but I'd wait a couple more months. I just thought I'd be fine. It's like, oh yeah, the little gap between my muscles is a bit wider than it used to be, but I just thought if I started doing lots of crunches, that'd tighten back up all nicely. I didn't even know that's not how it works. So all of a sudden there are these light bulbs that are going off in your... your potential prospects, your market, your audience's head. And here's the thing about a light bulb moment. We all talk about connection, right? How do we create more connection? Well, the thing that actually, the physiological cascade that actually creates connection is to a large part dopamine. Like dopamine's the big connection. Mom has a baby in her arms for the first time, just given birth, largest dopamine cascade she's ever gonna have in her entire life. connection. It happens the same in marketing. If you're able to provide someone with an insight, an insight, a revelation, right, creates a dopamine cascade. People are familiar with probably Simon Sinek, the start with why guy, right?
Jen:
Yep.
Glen:
Everyone had this big epiphany around, oh, I've got to start with why, right? It's just the way that he said it, the way that he articulated it, his style, have that light bulb moment and all of a sudden, everyone felt very connected to his message. So what's kind of interesting is when we go beyond the functional of this is what I do, and we get up into the layer of, and this is why it matters,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
where he starts to talk in a way to give people a new way of seeing the world, where when those little shifts happen, creates little dopamine sparks in their brain, creates trust, which creates connection, which makes people wanna work with you over the competition. And then when you're able to then do that well enough that you can get out of just doing it face to face and you can actually start, you know what? Podcast,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
YouTube videos, right? Whatever else, whatever other medium, all of a sudden you can start creating that impact at scale. That's what the first two steps of our methodology are. It's like get the pitch right, beyond just the functional and up into the vital. but also get the delivery of that out, the publishing of that out to the world. Right. So it goes pitch publish. Then it's about make sure that you've got some good products to offer beyond just your time. Otherwise you'll very quickly still burn yourself out. You won't have to be running around doing so much sales, but event I've got a coaching session actually with a lady straight after this, who she's doing something like 350 grand a year, but it's all her. It's all her time. If she
Jen:
Thanks for
Glen:
stops,
Jen:
watching!
Glen:
it stops. She's up to her eyeballs. She's on the edge of burnout. She feels like she's, she's told me she's feeling I'm running down a hill so fast. I can't stop, but I feel like I'm about to fall over forwards. No product. Right. So we're having a whole conversation around, well, how could we, if we were able to step back, how can we repackage what you do in a way that could deliver value. Beyond you, right? If you just had to stop for three months, how would we package it up? Right. So we get to still serve people. but you don't necessarily need to show up doing it. There's a method for that. And then profile is like media and winning awards and kind of going an even bigger game again. You can even probably think of profile as like five-star Google reviews for sure. Like any
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
social proof type stuff that you can develop that signals to the world that you're safe, right? Very quickly, shorthand. So a new mom can go. I really loved her message. And then I got online and off 300 five star reviews and she was on, you know, Joe Rogan podcast or whoever. And like, oh, okay. Like, of course we're going to work with this person. I'm not going to keep Googling around. Like they're, they're it, they're the person.
Jen:
So if you've got someone that is let's say they are known in their local area, maybe they have been going out doing the footwork They've put flyers out there. They've got you know, their cars branded. They've done all of that kind of thing. What would you If if they were then going I'm at capacity. I'm running this many sessions a week and they want to step into that next product What would the product look like and what? How do they move if they've not done a lot of that online stuff? What is the key things that they should
Glen:
Yeah.
Jen:
be going out and publishing?
Glen:
So there's a lot behind that, but the first thing I would say is that, don't think of it as a single product, it's a product ecosystem. So we say products don't make money, product ecosystems make money. Excuse
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
me. The first products to get right are, oh, hello, puppy
Jen:
Hello
Glen:
dog.
Jen:
puppy.
Glen:
Hello. If you can't see it, my little blue heel has just jumped up to say hello. I just need a little pat. Every now and again, I just need a little.
Jen:
We've normally
Glen:
be
Jen:
got
Glen:
okay.
Jen:
Rosie in the background but she's not here
Glen:
Then
Jen:
today.
Glen:
I'll be okay. All right, off you get. Good girl. Is to make sure you've got like what we would say and I appreciate this might be going a little bit far too fast, but like you got a special report out in the market, maybe a book, you've got some videos, you've got like an online quiz or some elements, maybe you do a keynote talk on a regular basis that you can promote and people can come along to that without them having to, you know, fully sign up to work with you. You've got these these products that make it very easy for you to promote yourself or your offer and for others to promote you. Right. So I can say, Oh, you know, Jen does this talk every two weeks down at the local gym after hours should go check it out as opposed to, Oh, you should sign up with Jen. She does that. It's like, it's a totally different level of commitment. And we want to make sure we've got enough products on the, on the sales and marketing side that, that are super low commitment. and yet super high value. Once you've got those and you're starting to experience, oh, I don't have to spend any time looking for new business anymore. Okay, that's it. I don't, I don't have to run attracting your business anymore. I've got the things that's doing that instantly. You've probably got now another at least five to 10 hours a week, right? If you're not putting having to put really any of your mindset towards that. So now you've got the time to think about, okay, now how do I solve the fact that I am the main reason that people show up to get help? Like I'm the one doing the work. I'm the one doing the groups. I'm the one doing the sessions, et cetera. Um, without that. There's just too much to do and you don't have the resources you need to, to put the things in place that you would need to be able to grow and ultimately scale. And we don't need to scale like a $50 million business, right? This is the thing. Most people don't realize that for the sake of having a team of, you know, three or four people, some online tools, some media tools, Hey, don't want to say it, but like playing around with some AI tools these days
Jen:
Thank you.
Glen:
is it really is possible to have a highly leveraged. um, small business, making millions potentially in revenue with a team of less than five people, right? Super easy to manage around the kitchen table. Everyone's cool. Everyone's having fun. Everyone knows what they're doing and that's great. So to be honest, Jen, that has kind of got to come first. There's got to be this like, you know what? I want that. Um, there's kind of got to be a vision to grow into. that is somewhat compelling and somewhat exciting that is the catalyst for the reason to innovate the product. Because I don't know, if that's not there, it's like, oh, well, like it kind of requires some magic, right, from the founder. Like people can just show up and do the work, great. But to really kind of innovate something that goes beyond you, that requires
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
another level of creative energy. think. And so there's gonna be a reason, right? So if you've got that reason, then I don't know, it starts to get a little a little abstract, but I'll go abstract, then I'll try and make it practical. The moment you realize people don't want you, they want the result you deliver.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
Actually, another way another way to say it, right? Used to be that, you know, you had to go to the local yoga class. And if five years ago, someone said, I'm doing like an online yoga thing, it Get out of here, no way. Right, now some of the most like billion dollar apps total fitness, yoga, apps, stuff that your mindset would have been, oh, I have to show up in person to do that. It's like, no, no. You don't. What do people want? Well, clearly people want a routine, they want a framework, they want some cool music. Right. They want to be able to do stuff in the comfort of their own home. That's convenient. They don't have to spend $300 on fitness wear to look the part and feel uncomfortable. Now this is what they want. Is there a way to package that up without having to say, Oh, but I'm a yoga instructor and they need me. It's like, well, there absolutely is ways to be able to do that. And the market has definitely shown that. So I'm not saying that the solution is to go and build a billion dollar app. Right. What I'm saying is like. to start to get comfortable with the fact that there are definitely other ways to deliver value. An easy way to start thinking about it could be some online courses, some online media that is paired with you. So if you would normally have to do 10 pieces of work with a customer to help them get a result, can you find a way where they do 30% of that, three of those 10 pieces in some online modules?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
that you've created that's private and that's unique and that's talking to them. If the answer is yes, you've just reduced your delivery by a third, which is an incredible achievement, right? And it's like, huh, are there some other ways? And then we just continue down that line until such time as we get to the point where, wow, actually I've got half of what I normally had to show up to do being done by media or technology. Now I can potentially look at even having someone else come in and they don't have to be like as good as me because of now they're supported, like they've got this crutch that is all this other media that I've created, these other tools that I've created. So now they can help people get just the same kind of result that I used to have to do because they're supported with all these tools that I've created. Now I can just go on a goddamn holiday for six weeks and people are still getting value. and I can afford to pay this person because there's a surplus. And you're seeing kind of how this is starting to evolve.
Jen:
Yeah, I am and I like it. And one of the biggest things that I think people object to when you start to not necessarily the online stuff, because you create it, you're still the face of it, you deliver it to one too many instead of individually. How do you then if you've got a personal brand that's built around you, introduce other people into the business and for other people to go, Oh, okay, it's okay that it's delivered.
Glen:
Yeah, so that's a great question. So the answer is, when you go on a Virgin flight, do you expect Branson to be flying the thing?
Jen:
Well I'd like him to be sat next to me so we can have a chat but no
Glen:
Yeah,
Jen:
I get your point. Ha ha
Glen:
of course not. Right. Now, there's a difference though, because if you go to a Tony Robbins conference, and Tony's
Jen:
And it wasn't
Glen:
not
Jen:
Tony Robbins.
Glen:
there, you feel like shit. Right.
Jen:
Yep.
Glen:
So, so there's some nuance here. Right. What is it? And it's easy to say, Oh, but Tony's doing training, Branson is actually doing is Branson is out there being the evangelist getting the attention
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
and then when people essentially go you've got my attention now what do I do with it? He's like there's a cool airline go check it out it's built with all my values and my oversight it's going to deliver on the promises that I'm making up here. Okay, we go to that product. At no point has he said come with me.
Jen:
Mmm.
Glen:
Right. He said go there. Whereas Robbins has said, hey, if you want to change your life, come with me. And it's like, I read your book, I listen to your stuff, you're amazing, you're inspiring, you're the guy. You're promoting yourself as the guy. So I'm sold, right? He got what he pitched for. He sold himself as the solution. Branson didn't sell himself as the solution. He sold his airline as the solution, right? So the way that Dan, myself at Dent have done it, is we've never run around saying, I, Glenn, have the answers. I, Daniel, have the answers. We have always said we've got a cohort of over 25 entrepreneurs from all around the world that are multimillion dollar revenue businesses that have built incredible brands, that created incredible breakthroughs. You're gonna learn from them. They've got subject matter expertise in all these different areas, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So.
Jen:
And so you've created the program that fixes the problem.
Glen:
We've created the program that fixes the problem, and I can choose to participate and be a part of that program or not, right? So there are some times where we deliver the program where I'm heavily involved, just based on my schedule. There are
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
some times where I'm not involved at all. The experience scores, the results, the output is identical. So, but the point, the question you ask though is how do we not get trapped in it? It's a pitching question.
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
So when you're pitching, you've got to be very, very careful. Am I pitching that I've built a system, a process that is more reliable than any human to get a result? And here's whether it's an app or a program or a workshop or something, or are you pitching, I have the skills and the expertise you should trust me. And I will work with you on doing it. And I will make sure it happens. Cause if you do it that way, people are, okay, I'll buy that. I'm buying you as
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
opposed to, oh yeah, I'll have that. I'm buying that. And it might be subtle, but it's a big deal the way you redirect people's focus from that. And so what that means is you can become super famous as the key person of influence and not be involved at all in delivering part of what you've created. So Simon Sinek has an entire online platform now that corporates and business, $80 million a year in revenue, he doesn't deliver it. It's all been. package and online and its tools and its algorithms and it's got some AI in there now and it does all this kind of stuff to help you find your why and help you become an infinite game player and all these things that he does, he just talks about it, doesn't deliver it. So there is this kind of journey of recognizing, keep in mind, Simon used to be a consultant. People bought him to come in and do the work. And so he realized that, oh, okay, he needed to transition. So now he doesn't pitch him. as the solution, he pitches this great tool, platform, as the solution. Still the evangelist, just not pitching himself into the equation.
Jen:
really like this and I think it will resonate with exercise professionals because they create programs that create the solutions. So if they can get a bit tighter around, so we sell MumSafe, we sell a MumSafe membership to trainers and we help them to become the go-to trainer for mums in their area and upskill and all that kind of stuff in their technical education, I don't actually need to be doing that. And if I thought I actually had the answers to all of that, then I'd be fooling myself anyway. Yep. Cool. One last thing to start to wrap us up Glenn, cause I'm very aware of your valuable time. If any of our team, Mumsafe trainers were going out in the community to create a partnership, who would they be doing it with? Doesn't have to be a long answer. We'll cover this one off.
Glen:
Oh, so look, in terms of partners, sorry, that's straight
Jen:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Glen:
into the middle of a, I don't want to reveal a confusing answer, but the principle behind partnerships is, how do we collaborate with people that are wanting to help the same people as we are, but don't have a competitive overlap?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
So it'd be very difficult to be a mum safe practitioner wanting to collaborate with another mum safe practitioner.
Jen:
We do that a lot too though, so we're turning that on its head,
Glen:
Well, great.
Jen:
but
Glen:
So
Jen:
we'll
Glen:
if
Jen:
keep
Glen:
you've,
Jen:
going.
Glen:
if well, that's fine. If you've got a cool particular way of doing that, but if they're both, the reality is if they're both in the same area and there's only
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
one person that's going to spend some money and they're going to choose one of you, it does become a zero sum game. Um, in that, in that space, different geographies, different niches, all that sort of stuff totally changes that up. But I would say the way we look for it is same target market, trying to help the same people. but no competitive overlap. So the way to think about a great partnership would be who has your ideal customer spent money with in the last six months, right? So, you know, maybe they've spent money with a doula, right? Or a baby coach or like whatever, right? Or the local baby supply store. All right, well, they become good opportunities to go and have a conversation with and go, hey, You've got the same, you've got the attention of people, of new mums, essentially, or mums that are even preparing to get pregnant. I help them in this particular way. We try to help the same people. There's no competitive overlap. Should we have a conversation about how we could potentially support each other? Simple as that.
Jen:
nice, simples. All right, if anyone has enjoyed, I'm sure they have enjoyed, and I've got all these questions that I haven't even got to because we got deep into all the other things. Where do they find, where can they follow you? Where can they find you? They can get the book.
Glen:
Remember, Jen, it's not about me.
Jen:
I know it well, it kinda is.
Glen:
They can Google me. You can Google Glenn Carlson. You can Google my business partner, Daniel Priestley. You can Google key person of influence. And look, if you want to shoot me an email, my email is Glenn, G-L-E-N at dent.global. Shoot me an email with your address and I'll send you out a copy of the book with our compliments physical book or Do the same on like Instagram or Facebook. If you want to send me a DM and say, Hey, or Instagram, sorry, or LinkedIn, find me a DM. Hey, what's with you pushy dog?
Jen:
She's like, wants to get in.
Glen:
Yeah. Then I'd be happy to send you a book and that's probably the best way to start. Or if you were to just Google key person of influence scorecard,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Glen:
it's an online tool we've created that will help you kind of get a sense of where you're at in the context of all the five P's and it'll give you some good recommendations. And just doing that quiz will invite you to a Fortnightly Founders call, depending on where in the world you're listening to this, but assuming Australia that I run. where we go into sort of more detail around some of the ideas behind what we've been talking about today.
Jen:
Yep, thank you. Before we finish off, I just wanted to say a huge thank you. So you and I met now over 10 years ago. I was doing the maths the other day. I released my book in 2013. Was it, must have been 2012, the very
Glen:
Well, I
Jen:
first
Glen:
think you're in
Jen:
key
Glen:
our
Jen:
person of influence,
Glen:
first Sydney
Jen:
SG1.
Glen:
group, I think. SG1,
Jen:
Yep,
Glen:
yeah. Very,
Jen:
yep.
Glen:
very, very first key person of influence experience in Sydney, which is wild.
Jen:
Yeah, it's crazy. And I think that if people there's there'll be some people listening that go, wow, I can really notice the through lines of the way that I deliver things and what I've done. And a lot of that has come from what I learned through doing KPI all those years ago. And I have to say if people are concerned or think creating, you know, building a profile is something to leave for later, I can honestly say that I would not have been able to transition from working with moms in a park to then becoming known online, launching safe return to exercise, now working with trainers, training trainers, not only in Australia, but all over the world and having the opportunities to go, you know, on a bigger scale than that. And that's the kind of thing that builds over time. So even if it's just a little thing here and there, make it so that when people Google your name, they know exactly what you stand for in the marketplace. Yeah.
Glen:
I love hearing that. And I just remember everyone asking you when you published your book, like, how did you do it? Cause you were running these boot camps every morning in the park in Sydney. And you're like, I would get up at four o'clock and write whether I felt like it or not. And by the way, I never felt like it. You know,
Jen:
Mm.
Glen:
you just did it. And I think like my credit back to you is you chose to do the things that most people wouldn't choose to do. And you know, as the... the trope goes, you now have the results that, you know, those others don't have. Um, that said, not stopping anyone else from just starting to do the things. And I think it's a great way to think about it. It's like, what are all the other people just not willing to do that? I'm going to decide I'm going to be willing to do that. And by virtue of just thinking that thought, um, we, we put ourselves in the. in the tiny, tiny vein of the population that get to have the experience of making like a real impact of making a real difference. And if I can have played a small role in helping create some sparks on people's journey, all credit goes to you. Thank you for having me on the on the store on the on the podcast. Thank you for taking me on your journey.
Jen:
Thanks for spending time with us. Have a great day. See you then. Bye.
Glen:
Thanks, Chet.
