Jen:
Jono and Trav, welcome to the Mom Safe Movement podcast. How are you?
Jono:
Awesome!
Travis:
We've very well thank you very much. We're very, very happy to be here. I'm very happy to be here and get a chance to chat.
Jen:
Awesome, I've never done this with three people on the podcast at the same time before, so this is a first for me. Ha ha.
Jono:
Not for us, me and Trevor experts when it comes to Minaj fans. So, you're in
Jen:
Nice,
Jono:
good hands.
Jen:
we'll have some fun, cool.
Jono:
Yes.
Jen:
Let's kick off the way that I like to kick off with a word, a win and a working on and Jono will go with you first.
Jono:
Yes, so my word is awesome. I'll give you two actually, awesome
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
and amazing. I kind of use them interchangeably.
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
They're my defaults actually, Jen. You know, when someone brings up, Jono, how are you? I'm awesome, how are you? So I
Jen:
So does
Jono:
find...
Jen:
that mean you're actually awesome, or
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
is that just...
Jono:
well, my default is awesome. You know,
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
I've learned like if my default is awesome, I'm always in a positive mood or more in a positive mood than not. So that's my word. We do
Jen:
nice
Jono:
it all three, word, win
Jen:
i
Jono:
and
Jen:
reckon
Jono:
walk.
Jen:
we should do all three and then flip over otherwise it's going to get super confusing
Jono:
Awesome. Okay. So my win is actually now that I think of it a huge one. I haven't told many people this. I think I mentioned it to Trav. So yeah, I just recently bought a house with my two things. I bought a house with my partner.
Jen:
Oh wow.
Jono:
Yeah. So two kinds of massive it one on their own. You buy a house. It's pretty big. You know, you're doing something like that with your partner. It's pretty big as well. So
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
yeah, sure. Those are massive. But mascot, not too far from where you used to.
Jen:
Nice,
Jono:
Hang out soon.
Travis:
Hmm
Jen:
very cool,
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
very
Jono:
yeah.
Jen:
cool. And when does it all settle and you get to move in?
Jono:
So about six weeks, we're
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
probably going to rent it out. We are going to rent it out for at least six months and then
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
look to move in after that.
Jen:
Amazing. Congratulations.
Jono:
Thank you.
Jen:
Exciting.
Jono:
And working on, so, me and Trav, we run Fitness Education Online. We're well known for running CEC courses. More recently, we also run Assert 3 and 4 in Fitness.
Jen:
Mmm.
Jono:
And we've just, we've... Yeah, I'll say we've just completed it. Assert three and four in business, sorry, in new business. So assert three and four in entrepreneurism. And I've
Jen:
Huh.
Jono:
just set up a Facebook ad to go live tomorrow. So it could either, could be really good or really bad,
Jen:
Amazing.
Jono:
but either way, that's what we're working on and we'll find out, you know, this time tomorrow.
Jen:
Fantastic. So what's a Cert III and IV in new business in comparison to like a Cert III and IV in fitness?
Jono:
Yes, so the cert three and four in new business, I think it used to be cert three and four in small business. It's now
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
changed to entrepreneurism slash new business. In a nutshell, it's for anyone that wants to start any business really. We've
Jen:
Hmm.
Jono:
gone a bit more specific, but it could be for any business. So the subjects you learn in, so it's not fitness space, right? You could be an online entrepreneur, you could be.
Travis:
hairdresser.
Jono:
an influencer, opening a restaurant, a dog walker, as our colleague Paul likes to do there. And the subjects are not fitness-based. There is some crossover, because obviously there's some business subjects in the sort of three and four,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
but the subjects are things like, you know, investigate business opportunities. So, hey, you've got all these business opportunities, which one are you gonna pick?
Jen:
Hmm.
Jono:
It's things like organizing finances for a new business, are you using your own savings? Are you getting a loan? Are you getting, you know, leaning off your friends and family, that stuff there, then obviously the sales, the marketing. So pretty much anything business. If anyone's got like a skillset,
Jen:
Cool.
Jono:
but they don't know the business side of things, they'll do this certification and that will teach them how to be an entrepreneur or how to start a new business.
Jen:
I like that. That's very cool. I feel like that's something that you should not you should, but could be put into a high school curriculum. Like our kids
Jono:
Mmm.
Jen:
could learn about business as well as just the shit that they learn about in school.
Travis:
Have you been speaking to Paul?
Jono:
Did you know Paul? Did you know Paul
Jen:
Who's
Jono:
Jen?
Jen:
Paul?
Jono:
Our business partner in the
Travis:
Paul
Jono:
search
Travis:
Timms.
Jono:
side of things. You'd get
Jen:
No.
Jono:
on well with him.
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
Yeah.
Jen:
Yeah, I think we need to revamp the whole school system, but that's a whole other conversation. Nice. Well done on doing that. That is super exciting.
Jono:
Thank you.
Jen:
Yeah. Trav, over to you.
Travis:
So word, mine's probably not as exciting as John's. My words just gonna be content, you know? Like I'm happy with everything that we're working on. Kids are good. We've got a big holiday trip thing coming up in a few weeks that we're ticking off the last sort of boxes for that.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
So yeah, getting everything settled there. A win, I think it'll be good for the Mums podcast. So people out there, I'll share a win. Kids are both sleeping through the night, which is.
Jen:
Wahoo!
Jono:
WOOOOOO
Travis:
good, which is good consistency. And for all of you out there who have been struggling with some things, my four-year-old has finally officially got himself toilet trained after like over a year of effort to
Jen:
Amazing.
Travis:
stop him pooing his pants basically. So he's finally got taking himself to the bathroom without prompting and he's
Jen:
That
Travis:
very
Jen:
is
Travis:
proud
Jen:
a
Travis:
of
Jen:
big
Travis:
himself.
Jen:
win,
Travis:
Oh
Jen:
man. Like
Travis:
yeah.
Jen:
that's a lot of like stress off your hands, the sleeping and the toilet training.
Travis:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's Yeah, so that's a that's a big win because no more dirty undies. Well, no more. There hasn't been any dirty undies for a couple
Jen:
Fingers
Travis:
of weeks.
Jen:
crossed,
Travis:
So
Jen:
nice.
Travis:
it's a he and he's been, you know, I put the put in the smaller one who's two so two and a four year old, the two year old a bed and he comes running in he's like, come and look what I did in the toilet. Because because he gets like a little Fredo frog. It's a the little the little bribery is like, can I have my chocolate now? Well, I'm putting Sophia to bed. So you know, Maybe we can give you the bribery later. The bribery
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
will stay for a little
Jen:
A while.
Travis:
while, I'm guessing, but it's a win because he'd been completely toilet trained for the number ones for like more than 12 months, you know, just
Jen:
Yeah,
Travis:
for whatever
Jen:
interesting.
Travis:
reason, the number twos were just, you know, he's, yeah. But that's definitely a win. That's
Jen:
Good,
Travis:
a big win.
Jen:
I like it.
Travis:
Working on similar genre. I think I've been working a lot on this search research for fitness stuff. So...
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
revamping it, making the assessments interesting, engaging, relevant as best as possible.
Jono:
Anyone listening to this has done
Jen:
Relevant.
Jono:
this before right?
Travis:
Yeah, you know, so,
Jono:
Do they
Jen:
Mostly.
Jono:
feel that? Yeah.
Travis:
yeah,
Jen:
Yeah.
Travis:
so, so I've sort of been in the weeds of looking at assessing and stuff
Jen:
Mmm.
Travis:
like that for a search research for. Yeah, and then that's, I suppose what I've been working and also I suppose in their automation stuff as well. Like I do a lot of automation stuff things that we're doing where it's email, which we probably touch on today with our Facebook ad stuff. But yeah, a lot of setting up that sort of stuff, making sure things run smoothly and ideally run by themselves.
Jen:
Yeah, we like that. I probably need more automation in my life. So there's some, but there's not
Jono:
Thank you,
Jen:
all
Jono:
Travis.
Jen:
of the things. How have you actually was talking to Alicia Smith on the podcast recently, and she was talking about when she used to work on the cert three and four at network. How have you guys found that process of there because it's government downright as to what has to be in there. And then how much have you guys put in? Are you allowed to put stuff in outside of that or what have you done?
Jono:
you take
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
this one, true?
Travis:
So we're very lucky that we've got, we've got a, another, a third business partner, as John said, we're experts with working with, with three people. And Paul Timms is, is that person
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
and he's amazing. He's been in the industry for a long time and, and has been involved in RTO space, you know, almost from the get-go when
Jen:
Mmm.
Travis:
it comes to personal training. So he's really been, you know, a good rock for us in regards to the compliance and all that sort of stuff. And that he's very government heavy and, and So one of these things, I come from a teaching background as well. And so, you know, one thing you learn is there's a curriculum that you've got to teach and it doesn't make sense to anybody except for the bureaucrats and the people pushing, pushing the pens and the red tape or whatever it is. Right. And this is the same. Um, you
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
can put in whatever you want essentially, you know, but, but you've still got to tick all the boxes, you know, so, but beyond that you can add all the extra stuff and all these extra bits and pieces, but, um, it's tricky because when you're, you're studying. Most people just want to get in and out. You know, this is
Jen:
Hmm
Travis:
the fine line that we've sort of been trying to like navigate a little bit on, you know, how much extra do we give people? Because if you give them more, they've got to do more, you know, and
Jen:
Yeah.
Travis:
it's a fine line, but it's good. I'm very happy with the product. I'm very happy with what we're able to produce and if people want to and what we offer, and, you know, if people want to dive deeper and learn more about women's health, learn more about kettlebells. marketing, whatever, we have those channels really easily available for them.
Jen:
Yeah, fantastic. Nice work. Big, big, big body of work. Well done. So I wanted to ask you guys to come onto the podcast. Series one is very much talking about how to grow your mom focused fitness business. And you know, I truly believe that without a good business doesn't matter all the technical skills that you have. One, you're probably not gonna last long in the industry. And two, you're not gonna have the impact that you have the potential to have because you're just not being efficient or you don't know how to get things out there. And there's this big question, like I love like organic marketing and putting things out there. And then there's Facebook. And it's such a head fuck for want of a better phrase for those of us that do not understand what goes on. So that's why I wanted to get you guys on the podcast. You've come into the Mumsafe membership a few times and talked about Facebook and some of the team have had some really great results. But before we get to Facebook, give us, Jono, you can go first, the, I don't know, two minute version of how you ended up where you are today. Hey.
Jono:
Two minutes. All right, I'll talk really quick. So simplified version. I'm actually university qualified. So
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
I went to university, got a degree in exercise physiology. And my original dream was actually to work in cardiac rehab, to work in a hospital and do rehab for people that have had heart attacks and strokes and whatnot. And finished uni, went to get a job at a hospital. And they were like, yep, no dramas. You just need to show us five years experience of you working with this demographic. And I
Jen:
Mm-hmm
Jono:
was like, oh. So I'm at least five years away. And I was like, what can I do to kind of get that experience? And I was like, you know what, let me work at a gym and tailor my clientele to that demographic. I ended up working in an aquatic center. I thought they've got a pool there. They teach older adult classes. I'll work on those. But did that, didn't really like that. I realized that I preferred the general public. So, yeah, I was in the gym. It was okay, but it was kind of like, it's kind of like a cert three job. You know, I was working there. I was putting weights away. Um, you know, writing programs for people like university qualified, cert three job, all the other trainers, they were like 17 at high school or, you know, studying something else. I was like, I've got to do something else. Um, so an opportunity came up to run a bootcamp at a franchise, took that opportunity and at the start, I sucked at it at this franchise gen, there was 75 different locations and
Jen:
Huh.
Jono:
you were ranking on how good you were, right?
Jen:
Wow.
Jono:
Based on your retention, it was 12 week challenges. How many of your clients came back? All right, now when I started, take a guess what I was ranked. One was the best, 75 was the worst.
Jen:
I don't want to say the worst but like I'm feeling like it's down there somewhere.
Jono:
What's your guess?
Jen:
I don't know, let's go 65?
Jono:
I was 75, Jen. I was
Jen:
75,
Jono:
dead. And
Jen:
right.
Jono:
it wasn't like I thought I was the worst. I had imposter syndrome. Like there was objective data. You would log on to the next course. And there was graphs and pie charts and numbers. So I was statistically proven that I was the worst there. But I loved it. I really, really liked it. So I was like, you know what? I just need to work at it. You know, what can I do? I was like, first thing I can do is maybe take some CEC courses in running bootcamp. So I took some CEC courses and they were really good and I learned a lot and got better and then took more courses and then got some mentors and then read books and YouTube channels and went to other people's classes. And long story short, 12 months later, went back to the same kind of conference where they yell out the rankings or whatever, then take a guess what I was ranked in.
Jen:
Number
Jono:
12 months,
Jen:
one, you
Jono:
exactly.
Jen:
got to be number one.
Jono:
Yep,
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
yep, exactly 12 months. Went from like 20 clients to 100, opened up another location. Me and Travis started working together at that stage as well. Travis can maybe intro how we met initially, but we hooked up again at that kind of stage there and ran a really successful bootcamp.
Jen:
Hmm.
Jono:
And then we were like, you know what? Maybe we could teach other trainers how to do this. So, you know, put together a CEC course, how to run a successful bootcamp. That was pretty popular. Put together a few more. You know, before you know it, we had five or 10. You know, I've come in when this was, maybe five, 10 years ago. Now we're up to I think about 50 courses,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
not all ours obviously, we collaborate with a lot of people out there. And yeah, that's the CEC side of things. Yeah, long story short, that's where, that's that there, I'm gonna hand it over to you, Trev.
Travis:
Yeah, so I mean, I'll go back and go back to the infancy. John and I played football together as kids
Jen:
Bye.
Travis:
and,
Jono:
rugby
Travis:
you
Jono:
league
Travis:
know,
Jono:
so they might be all over the
Travis:
Rugby
Jono:
country
Travis:
League,
Jono:
watching
Travis:
yeah,
Jono:
this
Travis:
Rugby
Jono:
right
Travis:
League, yeah,
Jono:
so we're Sydney guys so rugby league we
Travis:
yeah.
Jono:
play
Travis:
We played
Jono:
Dignal
Travis:
Rugby League together. But John was a, you know, was a private school boy. So he ended up playing rugby union once he once he got to high school. And so we didn't see each other for at least 10 years, you know, but his younger brother continued playing and played in the same team as my younger brother. And so, you know, Anyway, time passed and we played together when we were like under 12s or something. And then time passed, I'd been overseas for a bunch of time and I'd come back to rehab a knee injury. I'd done my ACL and I was in the gym and I was chatting and I was chatting to someone in the gym who I recognize and I knew. But I thought it was and now I've forgotten your brother's name, Jono. Pete, Pete.
Jono:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Travis:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm chatting, chatting. And then I go, well, Pete, you know, tell Jono I said hello.
Jen:
No.
Travis:
And Jono's like, what are you talking about? I'm Jono, you know? And I'm like, oh, no way! So,
Jen:
Do you look
Travis:
yeah.
Jen:
a lot? You have to look a lot.
Jono:
Yeah,
Travis:
Yeah,
Jono:
enough.
Travis:
I mean,
Jen:
Yeah.
Travis:
I hadn't seen John. I mean, you know, I hadn't seen John. I mean, over, you know, since we were 12, you know, so, and
Jen:
Uh, okay.
Travis:
we would have been, I was 21.
Jono:
This is probably 22 years, probably
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
10 years more probably.
Travis:
Yeah, exactly. I had my knee in when I was 21. So, you
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
know, it would have been 20. So we would have seen each other in close to 10 years, you know, and I wouldn't have seen his younger brother either. I'd been overseas for like three years as well. I wouldn't have seen his younger brother either in five years or something, you know. And then, yeah, and then John, I went off and started bootcamp. And as he, as he grew, like he was like, Hey, you want to And I started working at the same gym and then, you know, ended up going in and working with bootcamp. And like you mentioned, it was just, it was a conversation of like, you know, what, I reckon we could do this better.
Jen:
Mmm.
Travis:
And we, you know, and that's what happened. And, you know, and again, through the CEC path and now into the RTO path, same sort of thing where we're like, you know, can we do this better than some of these other people? And I feel like we are, and we're doing our best to do that and try to give it a bit of our flavor and a bit of our personality, I suppose. And that's, yeah, that's, I suppose, where we are.
Jen:
which you guys always do, you always bring personality to whatever you're doing on your stages or anywhere I've seen you. He he he.
Travis:
Yeah, I think
Jono:
this.
Travis:
it's, I don't know whether it's backhanded compliments, but a lot of the compliments we get are like, you guys seem like real people, you know, like, you don't seem, you don't seem like you're talking down to us or you don't seem too smart.
Jen:
I don't think they're backhandedly compliments at all. I think that's what people need to, they need to see and hear relatable people and you guys definitely show up as that from, in every way that I've experienced you. So yeah.
Jono:
Thank you, Jen.
Jen:
Can I ask before we move into Facebook, given you're a business partnership and I know you mentioned Paul as well, what are the defined roles? Like are there certain things that each of you take care of if you had like an org chart, like who's doing what or is it more just, I fancy doing this and I feel like doing that.
Travis:
Well, it's changed over time, I think as well. But I mean, predominantly, you know, predominantly John, I was looked after a lot of the marketing sales and now sort of looks after people who do the sales and stuff like that. And mine was predominantly content, you know, like, like I mentioned earlier, I come from like, I'm a primary school teacher as well. So I have come from that teaching side of things and really enjoy putting together that the content and enjoy the education side of things. And, and so that's where we sort of morphed into where we gravitate to, I think as well, you know, like I. I see myself as, and I still see myself as that someone who likes educating, um, you know, and, and that's, that's sort of, I suppose, where my passion sits is, is in educating people, whether it be primary school kids or now PTs or potentially future PTs. Um, yeah. And then, and with John, he's, he's done so much work on that marketing and, and you know, and I think that's come from his growth, like when he was running the bootcamp, you know, like he, he really dived into that marketing and that, and that side of things, which helped him do that. And then. transition to where we are here.
Jono:
The thing with me, I like educating too, but I also like money. And I realized that if
Jen:
That's...
Jono:
I just educate, I'm kind
Jen:
That's
Jono:
of
Jen:
nobody.
Jono:
limited. Yeah, but if I can learn that sales and the marketing, then the money comes in. And whether it's collaborating with travel, dual bid education myself, that's my side.
Jen:
yeah nice and do you guys like are there any ever any differences in opinion as to which way
Travis:
course.
Jen:
you should go or
Jono:
Every
Jen:
and how
Jono:
day.
Jen:
do you
Travis:
Yeah,
Jen:
settle
Travis:
of course.
Jen:
how do
Travis:
Every
Jen:
you settle
Travis:
day.
Jen:
that?
Travis:
I think...
Jono:
Every day, not every day,
Travis:
yeah.
Jono:
every,
Travis:
Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah.
Jono:
how do we say it, I think just conversation.
Travis:
discussion.
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
That's, I think that's the easiest thing. It's just discussion. Yeah.
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
I think that's the easiest way to deal with it. Yeah. Talking,
Jono:
Yeah,
Travis:
you
Jono:
yeah.
Travis:
know, and.
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
I think this, you think this. Okay, what a big one, which one we gonna do? Let's just do it and run with it and, you know.
Travis:
Yeah. And revisit. And I think the other thing
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
is we don't ever lock anything in stone. I think that's the other thing. It's all, it's all very much all let's do this for three months and see what the results are. You know, let's do the, and even then we've done that before where it's like, let's do this for three months and we get like a month in and we're like, well, that's not doing what we wanted it to do. So, you know, let's scrap that or, you know, or maybe it goes better than what we ever expected. And it's like, all right, well, that's our new thing. You know, so it's, yeah, I think there's, yeah, it's just collaboration. I think, I think that's the other thing. You know, one, one thing that we spoke about early in business is two heads are better than one. And we've both got very different perspectives on what we enjoy and what we like and what we would think, you know, that, so, you know, for me, it's like, Oh, I would like it like this. John, John would be well for me. I'd like it like this. So we try to, we try to create things that cater for both personalities as well, which, which I think helps with the audience, you know, because there's people who would be like John O and there's people who'd be like me, you know.
Jen:
Awesome. Do you ever put it to a vote, like with Paul as well? Like there's three people in a room or? No. Cool.
Jono:
Nah, yeah, nah. I always also think the one I probably look at it is who's more passionate about it as well. Like if it's
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
something that Trav really likes and I don't really, I don't share that passion, I'll be like, well, I would do it different. Trav likes that better than me. So, you know, go and do it. Even if both me and Paul thought the other way. And I'm sure it's the same with that as well. There's something that I'm super passionate about and Trav and Paul would do it different, but they're like, you know what? Jonah really loves that. Let's leave,
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
have you seen when? So it's probably more that than a boat.
Jen:
It's like that we just actually bought some outdoor furniture, nothing to do with business. And it's not the outdoor furniture that I wanted, but I was like, you have that outdoor furniture and I will pull rank somewhere else later on because I
Jono:
Yeah.
Jen:
don't care enough to have
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
a tantrum
Jono:
yeah,
Jen:
about
Jono:
yeah.
Jen:
the outdoor
Travis:
Exactly.
Jen:
furniture.
Jono:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Jen:
It is nice outdoor
Travis:
Pick
Jen:
furniture,
Travis:
your battles.
Jen:
but anyway,
Travis:
Pick your battles,
Jen:
absolutely.
Travis:
right?
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
Yeah.
Jen:
Okay, so let's get stuck into Facebook. When should someone start to use Facebook marketing?
Jono:
tonight.
Jen:
That's a very open,
Travis:
Hahaha!
Jen:
like, okay, so let me re rephrase that question. When in there, we're talking to fitness professionals, specifically, we're talking to fitness professionals that work with moms, but we will talk about whether niching is a good idea when you're Facebook advertising or not. Um, but let's say they are, I don't know, less than six months into their journey.
Travis:
I think the answer will be the same.
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
Yeah, I think, so my biggest, okay, so when me and Trevor run Facebook ads for other businesses as well,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
there's probably about three qualifying questions we ask.
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
So number one is like, do you currently do group train? Right, that's handy because it's just more leveraged. You know, it's kind of like, you know, that you can pretty much keep getting more people in there and it's not a massive amount of work per person, right?
Jen:
So that's more a capacity thing for the trainer.
Jono:
Exactly, yep,
Jen:
Yeah,
Jono:
number
Jen:
okay.
Jono:
one group training. Number two, do you have like either weekly payments or like some sort of minimum term, right? So if you're saying, hey, it's five, 10 bucks, meet me in the park, Facebook ads not gonna work, right? If it's, hey, it's 30, 40, 50 bucks a week, and it's a minimum of 10 weeks or it's a school
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
term or whatever it is, that's gotta be in place there because you know how much you're getting back. We might speak about exact numbers in that later. But simple
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
for my version, like, let's just say, what are most people, most people do sc- would do school term kind of stuff listening to this
Jen:
Yeah,
Jono:
tune or, yeah,
Jen:
yeah, I'd say so.
Jono:
what are they usually charged per school term, give or take?
Jen:
So I reckon it's around 250 to 350, if it's an eight
Jono:
Yep.
Jen:
to 10 week term, if they're training once a week,
Jono:
Awesome,
Jen:
yep.
Jono:
let's even say just 300 bucks, right?
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
So it's kind of like, if you know that one sale is gonna give you 300 bucks, we can kind of do your numbers. You might be
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
like, you know what? I'll put 100 bucks on Facebook ads if I know I'm gonna get at least, if I get one person, and that gets me at least $300 back. And also I'm guessing most of your clientele, their client, or most of your clientele, their clients probably stay for more than one school term, right? They probably do
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
three, maybe four, maybe years even some of them. So even let's say, What would you say the average is? At least three terms?
Jen:
Yeah, you'd get if you're talking maternity leave, you have probably six to 12 months, but there's definitely trainers that have got clients with them for years. Yeah.
Jono:
So let's even say conservative, but let's say the average person does
Jen:
Let's
Jono:
three
Jen:
go
Jono:
terms.
Jen:
three, six months. Yep.
Jono:
Yep, yep, let's say three terms. They obviously some more, but some are going to do one and not come, whatever. Like that's 900 bucks.
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
If you spend 100 bucks on Facebook ads and you get 900 bucks back, shut up and take my money. Who would
Jen:
I'm sorry.
Jono:
pay that to you,
Travis:
But beyond
Jono:
right?
Travis:
that, beyond that, you're getting an immediate $300 back.
Jono:
Yeah,
Travis:
Like beyond
Jono:
yeah,
Travis:
like,
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
yeah, like
Jono:
you're not waiting.
Travis:
even adding
Jono:
That's true.
Travis:
extra to that. Yeah, it's like you're getting that money immediately in your pocket.
Jono:
Yeah, exactly.
Travis:
That day.
Jono:
Whereas if you're doing like, you know, if you're just doing, hey, 10 bucks, meet me at the park, right,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
that person might come along, but you spend a hundred bucks, they've done one session and then they never come back or they do a session here and there, it's just too hard. So the three things are essentially group training, weekly fee, minimum term. And if you do a school term, that kind of counts as the weekly fee, minimum term either way.
Jen:
Yep, okay.
Jono:
As long as you've got those three things, you're pretty much good.
Jen:
Okay, and given we are talking about a niche, is it ideal for someone to have a niche when they're doing Facebook marketing? Or does it make things better?
Jono:
So that's gonna depend if it's online versus face to face.
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
Online, yes, niche. Like you just can't do, like we don't even run ads for people who've come up to us before. Hey, you know, I run Zooms or online or whatever, but no niche general people like, may, actually I don't think Facebook ads will ever work for that person. I shouldn't say ever, because maybe there's a way, I can't see it.
Travis:
It works if you're like a micro celebrity, you know, like,
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
or like an influencer, so to speak, you know, so maybe you've got some kind of audience who follows you for whatever reason.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
Maybe you've built that up, you know, for whatever reason, you know, by workout videos or by any other numerous reasons, you might build up a following, you know, whatever, Instagram, TikTok, whatever the cool kids are on. But
Jono:
the most.
Travis:
yeah, but, but yeah, I think. I think that's where it would differentiate for like that online program if you don't have that niche.
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
Sorry to interrupt. Continue
Jono:
So
Travis:
Jonah.
Jono:
yeah, I think
Jen:
No,
Jono:
online
Jen:
this is...
Jono:
you need a niche. Face to face, not so much to be honest, because you can win just by being the closest. No matter what
Jen:
Mmm.
Jono:
area you're in, there's going to be people that are like, oh, you're down the road and you're on a bootcamp for months or don't even mind, whatever, you're down the road and you're on a bootcamp? I never knew that. Let me put in my details and check it out.
Travis:
I'm just going to add on to that as well. I mean, we're talking to an audience, I presume, who are predominantly working with women. That's a win as well when it comes to Facebook ads. We've
Jono:
Oh
Travis:
run
Jono:
yeah.
Travis:
ads for hundreds of businesses. And I mean, we don't even, we exclude, we, the ad, like we exclude men from the, from the ad, essentially, you know, we only ever show the ad to women, you know, because we, in our experience, men don't buy our Facebook for whatever reason.
Jen:
Interesting.
Jono:
Yeah.
Jen:
Yeah,
Travis:
So
Jen:
right.
Travis:
yeah, even if, even if it's a mixed gender bootcamp. We just do an ad that shows
Jen:
that
Travis:
to
Jen:
goes
Travis:
women.
Jen:
to the women. Why do you think that is? It's just a women spend more time on social media or women are more, easy, I don't know. I don't know.
Travis:
It's but it's but it's backed up every time over and over again We get people who will go but I want men I want me my okay cool And we were okay We'll split them so we do
Jen:
Mmm.
Travis:
one for women one for men and then you can decide what you want to do afterwards and then When one when one's costing like three four five times more, but okay. Yeah, let's turn off that ad for the man You know, let's just focus on
Jono:
I haven't done enough thinking and philosophizing. I've just seen the numbers and I'm like, eh, it works every time with the women are all the, female leads are always cheaper than the men. So I'm not even gonna question it, men off,
Jen:
Yeah,
Jono:
focus female,
Jen:
interesting. Okay.
Jono:
yeah.
Jen:
So I'm, I'm going to talk about why it doesn't work for now. And then we'll go back into when it does work. But you've got people, some people throwing money at Facebook ads, why isn't it working for them? And yeah, what do they need to look at?
Travis:
So I'd say the first, I mean, it could be anything.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
I'd say the
Jono:
How
Travis:
first
Jono:
long you
Travis:
thing
Jono:
got?
Travis:
that
Jono:
How
Travis:
they
Jono:
long
Travis:
do,
Jono:
you got
Travis:
yeah.
Jono:
for this?
Jen:
Yeah. Hahaha.
Travis:
I'll give two things and then Jono will probably go on and give some more things. And
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
firstly, I would say sometimes people are told, they need this niche, right?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
And so what they do is they go, okay, well, I'm gonna target women who shop at Lululemon, who are this and that and this. And then they put in like these massive demographic, like in their Facebook ad setup. So that's one, it's just like over complicated. And
Jen:
Hmm.
Travis:
as John mentioned earlier, you just go, I'm just gonna choose a five kilometer radius, you know, like that ticks the box, you know? Or they're like, oh, well, I only work with women, the amount of people I've spoken to, like I only work with women, well, my average client is 28. So I'm gonna, I wanna target only 28 year olds. And someone, so you're telling me someone who's 22 wants to come in and train with you, you turn them down, then no, not at all. Okay, so why would you, you know, like, you know, and vice versa, someone who's 40, so. Do you have someone who's 40? And they're like, yeah, I've got a couple of people who are 40, you know, but they're not the average, you know, they're not my standard. I'm like, yeah, but you don't turn them down.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
show them the ad, let them decide if they want to try it with you or not. That would be the first thing. So like
Jen:
So making it too small a demographic.
Travis:
two defining, two defining
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
on their ad. Yeah. And then the second thing is that their ad, I would just say the way I like to put it is they put up an ad that would resonate with them
Jono:
Mmm.
Jen:
Hmm.
Travis:
as opposed to with their audience. So what I want to see in an ad is, you know, I'm a meathead. I want to see like what barbells they're using, what type of plates they've got, what's their equipment in their gym, what's their, you know, I want to see that stuff. Like, I'm a meathead, you know, and that's what I want to see. That's not what the average person wants to see. The average
Jen:
Hmm.
Travis:
person couldn't care less what type of barbell the person's lifting with, or if they've got a reverse hyper in the gym, or if they've got like power lifting plates, or if they've got a barbell jack.
Jono:
boot camp, strapping the boot camp setting, a lot of boot, hey, look at me do these burpees, look at my clients,
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
do these medicine ball slams and battle rope slams. How cool is that? Yeah, if you're a trainer, it's cool, you know, for my mom, you know, or, you know,
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
for a new mom or somebody that's next size, that's not cool.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
Yeah, so they put out an ad that they like, and they think about them, them in their current state, as opposed to them 10 years ago, or pre-fitness, so to speak.
Jen:
Okay.
Travis:
They'd be my two key things.
Jono:
Trav nailed it. I think they're great.
Travis:
And there's
Jono:
I'm
Travis:
a lot
Jono:
just...
Travis:
of other little micro things within that as well, so
Jono:
Yeah,
Travis:
just.
Jono:
well, I think we'll get to those micro ones when maybe we go for the one that does work. We can do it either way. Because like the way I think of that is just like, well, he's the perfect ad. He's the five or six things. So if it didn't work,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
he's five or six things. But I think we'll cover that when we speak to how to do the proper thing. I'm just gonna back Trav on that. And I think it's probably two things. That first one, I think because there's a lot of like content out there and kind of business content. from people that are purely online people, right? That type of marketing doesn't necessarily work face to face. So the marketing that me and Trav do for fitness education online
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
is different marketing to what we tell peak trainers to do who are running a local bootcamp, right? It kind of goes back to what you said earlier with the niche gen. It's like, yeah, if you're online, you need to have that super defined niche with the age and the interest. But if you're face to face, it's gonna be more of a... a deterrent than anything there. So
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
I'll back travel on that. And yeah, 100%, we'll probably speak about the photo with the does work kind of things because that's the major thing that will determine if it works or not. And traffic
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
probably the major thing that people do wrong with the photo will be created.
Jen:
Yeah, okay. Do you think some people also don't spend enough money like in the fitness industry? Like,
Jono:
Oh yeah,
Jen:
yeah, okay.
Jono:
that's great. Let's spend a minute there, because that's a good point there. I didn't even think of that. So what our recommendation is, is the cost that one client, or what you make off one client on their minimum term, that's what you put on Facebook ads. So
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
on your market chance, people take about 300 bucks, right? And some people, it's actually a bit more, because a lot of people charge 50 bucks a week, you know? For 12 weeks, you know? So there's like $600. And we'll have that conversation, we'll be like, right? You know, well, if that's the thing, you should put at least $600 on Facebook ads. You're like, 600
Travis:
over the next
Jono:
bucks
Travis:
sort of two
Jono:
on,
Travis:
weeks as well.
Jono:
yeah,
Travis:
Like not,
Jono:
sorry, yeah,
Travis:
yeah.
Jono:
in a two week period. They're like, 600 bucks on Facebook ads? I'll never do that, I should do a $5, $10 boost or whatever it is. We're kind of like, well, A, how much clients you get off that $5, $10 boost? Zero, right? B, if you get one client, you've made your money back up front. They stay for three months, you made three times your money. But guess what? We don't think you're gonna get one client. You put
Jen:
Mmm.
Jono:
600 bucks on, we think you're gonna get five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 clients out of it. Imagine if you do this, you spend this $600, and you get 10 clients that are paying 600 bucks off the back, 6,000 back. So yeah, short answer, 100%, our recommendation, whatever that one client costs, spend that. Absolute worst case scenario, you make one sale and you get a three times ROI, right? Best case scenario, sky's the limit.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
And the other thing I would just add in there is people who just don't know their numbers, you know, like
Jono:
Oh yeah.
Travis:
the amount of times that we've worked with someone and like I try to Facebook out and it didn't work. And then we're like, oh, give us a look. And then when you chat to them, they make I don't know what their expectations were, but they
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
made like three, four, five times their money back. And you're like, but they only put $10 on. So they put $10 on and they made one sale or something. Right. Let's say I put $10 on. They made one sale. So they put $10 on and got 300 bucks back and they're like, it didn't work. And you're like,
Jono:
What did you want the teabag?
Jen:
Where
Travis:
what?
Jen:
else
Jono:
Ben.
Jen:
can you print like an extra 290
Travis:
Yeah,
Jen:
bucks?
Travis:
and that happens, that happens regularly, you know, like that happens regularly with people where they just, they go, I put an ad on it didn't work, I only got one sale. How much money did you put on? 10 bucks. Yeah, like, why didn't it work? I don't understand what they're what they're tells
Jen:
Did
Travis:
you it
Jen:
you
Travis:
didn't
Jen:
put
Travis:
work.
Jen:
another $10 on
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
and see
Jono:
yeah.
Jen:
what happened
Travis:
Yeah,
Jen:
next?
Travis:
but that's
Jen:
Like...
Travis:
they don't, they
Jono:
I would
Travis:
don't
Jono:
have put
Travis:
do
Jono:
$10
Travis:
it.
Jono:
on every minute if that was my ad.
Jen:
Absolutely. Okay, so let's flip it around then and tell us what does work. So there's something in the picture that we're going to see, um, that we want to choose, I guess.
Jono:
Yeah, you wanna take this one, Trav?
Travis:
Yeah, so first key one with the picture is again, thinking about not what you wanna see.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
So the people who are joining these fitness things, typically they're contemplating fitness, they're not already super duper fit. So they don't wanna see people working out and sweating and exercising hard and, you know, like pushing themselves beyond the limits and they don't wanna see that because... That's not them. It's just like an intimidating picture. I don't want to say people working hard. You know, the photo that we find always works best is just your group smiling, looking down the barrel of the camera. Not too big a group, not too small a group. If you work with mums and babies, throw a baby in there. If you've
Jono:
range
Travis:
got your
Jono:
of
Travis:
dog
Jono:
body
Travis:
down
Jono:
sizes,
Travis:
there, throw your dog there.
Jono:
range of body sizes.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
range
Jono:
That's
Travis:
of body
Jono:
the other
Travis:
types,
Jono:
one.
Travis:
yeah.
Jono:
I think that's another common mistake. Here's me looking shredded in my six pack or in my bikini or whatever. It's like, it's good, you've worked hard for it, but it's not going to attract, most of the time it's not gonna attract that there. The way I like to define it is, you want your ideal person to be scrolling through their Facebook feed, they stop and see a photo. It doesn't even look like an ad. Because most of the time someone sees an ad, they just scroll through. I think that's a big change in marketing over the past 10 years. Now it's like, you don't want it to look like an ad. You want that person to be scrolling through their feed. They see a photo, they stop. They're like, who are these people? They look just like me. Only a little bit happier and
Jen:
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jono:
healthier. They're the two key things. And I'm not saying healthy, I'm not saying they're all ridiculous, but they look like they're exercising. They're in workout gear and happier. Trav mentioned smile. That's the biggest thing. If I had to say one thing out of it, is that every person in that photo needs to have a smile. We've tested this as well. If
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
you, let's say you've got 10 people in that photo, nine of them are smiling and you've got someone up the front with their
Jen:
Hahaha
Jono:
arms. It's not gonna work. That one person makes all the difference and we even get tips on that. Hey, if
Jen:
Well...
Jono:
you do want that person, just get them to take the photo. Hey guys, I wanna be in the photo now. Hey, Travis, can you take this one here to get them out of it? Not only
Travis:
That would probably
Jono:
me, but
Travis:
be me though.
Jono:
it probably will be Travis as well. So yeah, happier. and healthier, those two things there. And even just to point into a bit more of like the psychology of it as well, we don't, let me think of it. So Travis has mentioned a few times the workout photo, right? Even though that's what they're gonna do when they go there, if you show them the workout, it looks like hard work. But if you show them the end result, a bunch of people that are just looking happy after working out, that person's, oh, why are these people so happy? And why are they so healthy? They must be doing this bootcamp or this,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
you know. exercise thing. Maybe if I do this exercise thing, I'll be happy and healthy like them as well. So they do that. And it's almost like the new before and after. Remember like 10 years ago, it was like before and afters was kind of like, that's
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
gone. But the after now is just happy and healthy.
Jen:
Yeah,
Travis:
And I
Jen:
that's
Travis:
think
Jen:
good.
Travis:
also like they don't need to be these crazy curated photos. How many times do we get people, I've got
Jono:
I
Travis:
to
Jono:
feel
Travis:
get a photographer
Jono:
like,
Travis:
in.
Jono:
yeah.
Travis:
Your camera is so good. Take a selfie. Some people's ads who we've had, because we usually would select like four photos to run on an ad. Some of them, they're scraping the barrel for four photos and one of them is like blurry or like it. And that might be the
Jono:
Finger
Travis:
one that,
Jono:
in the camera.
Travis:
you know, the finger in the camera, you know, like that. And that ad performs. super well, you know, like they don't need to be like these professional photographer, you know, shots. It's just, just
Jono:
because they
Travis:
chilled.
Jono:
look too fake, the professional
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
ones. You
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
know, they look like an ad. People look at it and go, oh, that's an ad. I'm scrolling through.
Travis:
No writing on it either. No, just a photo.
Jen:
Okay so we've got let's say we've got a photo of us smiling people what else do we need?
Jono:
with, so we even spent a minute there as well. So, Trav touched on that. Like three or four different photos. So don't just have the one, three or four different photos. And if you can, very much slowly, even though it's that same style, it's just a group of people after the session, take them on different days. Maybe one of them's like the football team photo. You take it, everyone's kind of there. Maybe one's like a selfie. It's you holding it, you've got everyone in the background. Maybe one's outdoors. Maybe one's in your facility. Maybe you do... a beach session, you take one at the beach, maybe you do a boxing session, you do like that same style, but get as many different variations of them as you can. Even if you don't use them in this lot of Facebook ads, just have a bank of just different those types of photos.
Jen:
Hmm.
Jono:
So you run this one for a couple of weeks, right? You know, that turns off, you run your school term, whatever, 10, 12, 10 weeks later when you do it again, right, let's do it again, but now let's use some of these different photos and you'll be able to,
Travis:
And I'm
Jono:
oh
Travis:
just
Jono:
sorry,
Travis:
going to
Jono:
you might
Travis:
also
Jono:
have
Travis:
interrupt
Jono:
to.
Travis:
there. Use the different photo because you can choose what photos to put on and off. Don't turn off the ones that work last time.
Jono:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
Replace the ones that didn't work. Again, people like people go, oh, I need a new photo. And did you add work last time? Yes. Why
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
change anything? You don't need to
Jen:
So
Travis:
change it.
Jen:
the moral I'm getting from this is making sure you've got some way to test and measure and be tracking what's working, which I'm sure we'll get to anyway, but
Jono:
Yep.
Jen:
I'm sure you
Jono:
Sweet.
Jen:
yeah.
Jono:
So that's the first part, the photo. That's the most creative. That's the first thing people look at. And I say photo almost subconsciously because that works better all the time for this style of ad, right?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
That's the question, oh, I should put some videos? No. Tested it as well, just have that photo, that's it. And it's easier. You don't need to worry about a video or whatever. So photo there, right? That's the first thing people look at. The next thing is the headline, right?
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
Photo first, headline next. And it's the important thing as well, because a lot of people worry a lot about the copy. It almost doesn't matter these days. Let's like the least important thing. If you've got a good photo and you've got a headline, the copy is just kind of proving the point. So the major thing you want in a headline in a local business is just the name of that suburb. And with your demographic gem, it's probably women or moms or something
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
as well, right? Attention, mascot moms, attention. mascot women, attention, mascot locals, whatever variation of that there. Because if we go back to that same kind of philosophy in the clients or in the leads mind, they're scrolling through their feed, they see the photo, oh, who are these people? They look just like me, just a little bit happier and healthier. Next thing they see is a mascot. I live within five, that's like the next suburb to me. Let me click and see what this is. So literally just that, you don't need to get too creative with it. It's literally just have the name of the suburb in there. It's pretty much yours to lose from there.
Jen:
cool.
Travis:
And that's typically where you'd put below the photo. Is that what you're referring to there
Jono:
Yep,
Travis:
as the headline?
Jono:
yep,
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
yep.
Travis:
So like when you see Facebook added, it'd be the thing below the photo there.
Jen:
Okay, and then if they're running, so they're running the photo and testing the photo, they've got the headline, they've got some text underneath. What else are we considering?
Jono:
Let's spend a minute on the text. So that's kind
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
of the third part there. So in
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
the front end of the ad, it's literally just those three. And focus on those orders. Spend the most time on the photo. Take a week, every day, take a photo every single day at your session until you get those good ones there. Headline easy, just have the name of the thing there. The copy as well. So we've got a very specific copy that we use. Simplified, or even just to simplify it, the more, the simpler you can make it, the better. This is something
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
that's really changed over the years as well. The common thing in marketing a few years ago was to write all this long copy and speak about people's problems or whatever. I just think people don't have time these days. It
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
was just like, get to the point as quick as possible. So that's kind of what we say there. There's a few key things to mention in the copy there. The first thing is to mention kind of like your offer. So, hey, it's a 10 week, and actually I'll spend the important thing there, well, not if you can, I recommend using the word challenge, right? Let's say you run a 10 week program. I recommend using the word challenge. Now we'll spend a minute here. We've tested this with different words because a lot of trainers have a negative connotation with the word challenge.
Jen:
I do,
Jono:
Okay,
Jen:
it makes me go, mm, like, yeah,
Jono:
yeah,
Jen:
yeah.
Jono:
cool. So here's the thing, right? A lot of trainers think that as well, but I feel they've got like, actually I'll ask you this question, Jen. What's
Jen:
Hehehe
Jono:
your definition of a challenge?
Jen:
Yeah, I definitely go into the whole eight week bikini
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
body challenge
Jono:
exactly. Weight
Jen:
type
Jono:
loss.
Jen:
scenario.
Jono:
Yeah. Cool.
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
Would you say it's a pretty good challenge if somebody could just, if someone hasn't been exercising, if they can just exercise three times a week for 10 weeks. Is that pretty much how it is? Yeah, cool.
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
That's my definition of a challenge, right? And that's kind of like most people, like that not in the,
Travis:
Mm.
Jono:
obviously in the fitness industry, we think weight loss challenge,
Jen:
Mmm.
Jono:
bikini challenge, I've got to add all these bonuses and...
Travis:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
I've got to have a prize for who loses the most weight. And I've got to do these body scans and no, right? Doesn't even, like, if you, like the way I look at it, you run a school, you run a 10 week thing. If you literally just have the word challenge in there, you will get way more leads. You don't need to change anything. You don't need to change the name of your
Jen:
Hmm.
Jono:
business. You don't need to add any bonuses in. You just use that word challenge, you will get more leads. And we've tested this, you want to jump in, Joe?
Travis:
Yeah, and I'm just gonna say they're like, at no point are we saying you're gonna throw in weight loss challenge. And we're not saying weight loss challenge. We're not saying bikini body challenge. It's literally the word challenge, you know, like, it's nothing more beyond that. And this is the same thing that I suppose it's almost on the opposite of what we throw at ads that we would like to see. You know, what happens is people say, I don't want to put the word in challenge, because in my head, I
Jen:
What
Travis:
have
Jen:
do
Travis:
these
Jen:
I
Travis:
negative
Jen:
think?
Travis:
connotations about like I don't want to run a weight loss challenge. I don't want to run at this. I don't want to run at that. It's like, okay, well, you don't have to run a weight
Jono:
I'm
Travis:
loss challenge. As John, I said, like for the three of us, the challenge could be all completely different. You know, like maybe John, I wants to run city to surf and he thinks it's going to, you know, he wants to get himself ready for that. And, you know, I want to do something else. And, you know, like the challenge
Jen:
I'm picturing
Travis:
could be different.
Jen:
like a, you know those stamp cards that when you just show up to a session, like it could be just a super easy
Jono:
Yeah.
Jen:
way to turn it into a challenge. You just gotta get your stamp, stamp every time for showing up.
Jono:
I'll tell you what else, so here's the thing. You don't even need to, it's just
Travis:
You don't
Jono:
a
Travis:
need
Jono:
wall
Travis:
to define
Jono:
that you
Travis:
anything.
Jono:
put on the ad. Once
Jen:
Okay,
Jono:
you get on
Travis:
Yeah.
Jen:
so
Jono:
the phone
Jen:
it's literally
Jono:
with that person,
Jen:
the word.
Jono:
yeah, once you get on the phone with that person, you
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
don't even use the word challenge, you know? Oh yeah, it's a school term, blah, blah. And the reason we figured this out is because we'd have this conversation, but nah, I don't wanna put challenge. Can we put program? Can we put
Travis:
Kickstart.
Jono:
term? Can we put body reset? Can we put bootcamp? Can we put like every single variation of it? And we just wouldn't work as well. So now we're just like, no, you gotta use the word challenge. You can do that other thing,
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
but we're not going to take responsibility and we're not going to, when it doesn't work, when it's, I told you so. Um, and even when
Jen:
Fair
Jono:
Travis,
Jen:
enough.
Jono:
the amount of conversations I've had where I'm like, Oh, use the word challenge. Now I don't want to do a weight loss challenge. Who said anything about weight loss? Oh, you're right. So yeah. Um,
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
someone like that, Hey, 10 week challenge. Um, uh, this mentioned the location again, because it just kind of drums it in. The other key thing as well is the start date. And this works perfectly. If you, if you run like. a challenge thing or a school term thing where there is a set start date. Even if you do allow people to join at any time, the ad is gonna work better if you just mention it on the start time. Because everyone listening to this knows what the fitness industry is like. You give someone the opportunity to join anytime, you're giving them permission to never join in their life, right?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
You put a start date on there, and let's go through that philosophy again. Just scroll on through the feed. They say, oh, who are these people? They look just like me, only happier and healthier. Mascot, that's the man in the corner from me. Start date, that's next week. Let me opt in here so I don't miss out. All right? So that's another key thing there is have that start date in there. And whether we speak about how frequent you run the ads, but even if we speak about just a school term, you're probably just gonna run that ad for a couple of weeks in the school holidays or the
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
week before or whatever. Then you turn it off when your thing's on. Focus on delivering a really good service to your clients. and then you turn it back on again for the next one there. So you're just running that ad for a two week period and you're changing that start date each time there. And the final thing is just, it sounds silly, but just adding a little call to action down at the end of it. Just saying something like click below to learn more. And I know it sounds silly because if you're listening to this, you're probably pretty tech savvy. You know, you see an ad, you click learn more, you do it. But not everyone is that tech savvy. Not everyone just knows about it. So just having that bit at the end there as well. But to simplify
Travis:
tell people
Jono:
it.
Travis:
what to do.
Jono:
Yeah, something like that. Hey, 12 week challenge, women only, mascot location, starts the 15th of September, click below to learn more. If you literally just have that with a great photo
Jen:
Hmm.
Jono:
and you have the suburb in the headline, your ad won't totally suck.
Jen:
It's not going to be amazing but it just won't totally suck.
Jono:
you'll make money off it. You literally just do that.
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
Providing, it all comes into the photo though. You
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
know, like me, we can look at photos, that'll work, that'll work, that won't, that won't, that won't. But even if you just use those guidelines we said, all right, go rewind back and watch those four or five things we said, as long as you hit those things, the ad will make
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
money.
Jen:
And are you running a lead ad? So they're the ads where they come through as leads inside Facebook rather than taking them to another landing page.
Jono:
Yeah. Do you want to take this chat or you want me
Travis:
Yeah,
Jono:
to?
Travis:
in our experience, again, the benefit there is that you get their details, which, you know, like you get the opportunity to have their name, number, email, we want you to actually call them. You know, like that's the other thing. People just expect people to sign up on the spot, which may happen, may not happen. Um, but the opportunity to get a lead ad, to follow up with an email sequence, to follow up with a phone call, to make sure you're a good fit for them. They're a good fit for you. Like it's, it's that relationship, you know, you got to get them on the phone, which is always a challenge, you know, but. It's about trying to build a relationship because there's always going to be people who aren't a good fit for you and you're not a good fit for them. And that's a genuine conversation to have in that sales process. And yeah, so a lead out. And then the other benefit of that is you build your database, something that a lot of trainers don't do, you know, and, you know, they just say, they go like, oh, this person stopped training with me or this person said no. So I'm never going to contact them ever again. And that person is never going to, I'm never going to take money from that person ever again, essentially. Like they're like, they're blacklisted. But They don't need to be, you know, like you can, you can contact them six months later. Hey, how you going? You know, like, are you interested in, you know, with emails or you can contact them on a weekly basis, whatever the situation might be. So the opportunity with a lead ad is it gives you that chance to build your list of people who are at least somewhat interested because they've clicked on the ad and filled in their details. Um, and
Jono:
that you've
Travis:
contact
Jono:
targeted
Travis:
them at
Jono:
as
Travis:
a later
Jono:
well.
Travis:
date.
Jono:
You know, they live
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
within five kilometers. They've seen the ad, they've clicked on the ad, they've entered their name number, name, number, and email and clicked
Travis:
despite
Jono:
learn
Travis:
the amount
Jono:
more.
Travis:
of people who say no one ever did that. And
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
you think I just made, you think
Jono:
That's
Travis:
I just
Jono:
me
Travis:
randomly
Jono:
though.
Travis:
made your name, number, and I
Jen:
It
Travis:
just
Jen:
drives
Travis:
randomly
Jen:
me nuts.
Travis:
got it? So.
Jen:
It's
Jono:
But
Jen:
crazy, isn't it?
Jono:
I do that as well, I got a call today. I'm like, oh, you had to get my number. Oh, yeah. I'm like, no, I didn't. Then I hung up and I was like, oh, you know what? I actually didn't give it up
Jen:
I
Jono:
first.
Jen:
did. Yeah, we'll talk about frustrations in a little bit. But yeah, anyway.
Jono:
I'll pick it back up what Trav said, because I think that's the million dollar question. Everything we've been speaking about so far has
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
been very front end based. And I'll even run through some rough kind of numbers here. In terms of Facebook ads, it's going to cost, it's getting a lot of variables, but simplified version, it'll be about $10 a lead, give or
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
take, right? And even if you suck at sales, you'll probably close about 10%. one in 10, okay? So that means it's about $100 to get a client, right? Now they're kind of the numbers we've worked with their website, right? Put on 100 bucks and you'll make 300 bucks on the front end and then 900 bucks when that person stays in. It sounds pretty good, you know? You put 500 bucks on, you make five clients, you know? That's all well and good. But the better, the better thing that making money on the front end is the backend. So even if we use those stats, let's say, let's use $300. So you put $300 on a Facebook ad, you'll get about 30 leads if you use our system, about at least three of them will sign up on the front end. If you're good at sales, maybe even six, but let's just be conservative. And let's say you get three of those there. So you get a three times ROI on the front end, pretty good, nine times ROI on the back end, pretty good. But the best part is those 27 people that didn't sign up. because just because they didn't sign up today, the first time
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
they've ever heard of you, who does that? I do, but I'm the minority.
Jen:
I'm sorry.
Jono:
Travis will never, Travis will follow someone at least six months before he even thinks about giving them money, right? So the best part is actually not those three people on the front end, it's those 27 people on the backend that didn't sign up. And then what compounds that even more is if you do some organic marketing, as Jen's spoken about,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
because the down, my opinion, I love organic marketing too. But the down point is if you're not building your list, you're pretty much speaking to the same people again and again and again. But if you're building your list by 30, 40, 50 people every single round you do, your organic is gonna get even better as well. So that's why I love the lead ads.
Jen:
Yeah, so, oh sorry, go travel.
Travis:
I was gonna say, it makes your organic stuff work better. You
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
know, like
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
it just, it ties into that organic strategy because like John, I said, most people who have organic strategies, most of them don't really get them in front of new people,
Jono:
Mm.
Travis:
you know, and this is a way to get in front of brand new people, which
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
never heard of you, never known you, and that's the beauty of Facebook ads, I think.
Jono:
And it's kind of like, it's kind of like a, I don't know what the word is, like a, almost like a, I don't know, spectrum is the right word, where it's like, let's say, let's just say the average person takes six months before they even think about buying with you, right? Yes, there's the people like me that'll buy on the spot. Yes, there's the people that will never buy from you and just whatever, whatever did it. But let's say most people is six months. Like if you're doing this ad every quarter, every three months, you've constantly got people at different kind of stages of the cycle.
Jen:
and I'll see you next time.
Jono:
So that way when you're doing your organic marketing, you might, whatever, you do your posts, this 10 week block or whatever it is here, this might speak to the people that you acquired six months ago. And then
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
you do your organic 10 weeks later, and then you speak it to the people six months from then. So it's just kind of like a constant flow of new people that are all coming in at different stages, which really helps.
Jen:
Yeah.
Travis:
And with your audience, just another thing with your audience, I assume there'd be people who will be last stage of their pregnancy who are going, oh, I might want to do this once I'm,
Jono:
Hmm.
Travis:
you know, I've had my baby, you know, so you may actually get people who are like forward planning, you know what I mean? So that's where this becomes important as well.
Jen:
Absolutely, we definitely get people that are either forward planning or they want to do it now and then they can't do it. Just life happens and
Jono:
Mm.
Jen:
children happen and all the rest of it. Do you think having a profile in the local community makes the I'm not saying it won't work without that, but it makes it easier. So let's say you've got a car signage, you've got flies that go out, you've got you're doing talks, and then all of a sudden, they get a Facebook ad, the conversion is going to be higher because you've done that groundwork.
Jono:
Yep, 100%. I'd say yes for me on a couple different things. So I think it's just like mere exposure.
Travis:
brain to weigh in this.
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
brand awareness, mere exposure. And I think it can also work the other way as well. I think
Jen:
Okay.
Jono:
it's like, let's say you are running a Facebook ad, maybe someone doesn't buy off that Facebook ad, but they've seen it, they've been quiet, whatever. And then you post in the local Facebook group or whatever, oh, I did see that, you know, or that there. So I think, yeah, the combination
Jen:
It's the layering
Jono:
definitely.
Jen:
effect.
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
yeah.
Jen:
Nice. Travi, you're going to say something.
Travis:
No, I was just going to say, like, I think,
Jono:
You don't need
Travis:
again,
Jono:
it, I guess is
Travis:
yeah,
Jono:
another, like,
Travis:
I think,
Jono:
yeah.
Travis:
yeah,
Jono:
I wouldn't
Travis:
I don't think
Jono:
not
Travis:
you
Jono:
do an ad.
Travis:
need those things to make a Facebook ad successful.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
Obviously, it's not going to hurt if you've got like a brand awareness that people already know you. And, you know, but like I mentioned with the Facebook ad, the idea is it's probably going to go to people who have never seen you, never heard of you,
Jen:
Hmm.
Travis:
no matter, they haven't seen your car drive by, they haven't. And that's the beauty of it really, is it just the opportunity to get into brand new people. That's
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
I'll
Travis:
the main thing.
Jono:
spend a sec there as well. I think I've got a torn, I still like, my take on that, you don't need it, but it could be like, just give you that extra 10%. That could be the difference between someone's brand new, no awareness, whatever, they run the Facebook ad, they close at 10%. Maybe if you've done a lot of stuff in the area, people know you, you've done talks, you're posting in the local group, you post on your own profile, maybe close at 20. Rough things there. But I'll give... An example to go the other side as well, is probably about five, 10 years ago or something, our Facebook page got banned, Fitness Education Online. They used to be a lot stricter on Facebook, they used to ban you for anything. Our page got banned, we ran a lot of Facebook ads. I was like, what are we gonna do? I just quickly created like a business page with my name, Jono Petrohellos, like zero followers, zero likes, zero reviews, ran a Facebook ad, and the lead cost was actually the same. So
Jen:
Oh wow.
Jono:
yeah, so I think like, There's obviously some people like the Travis's who will click on the profile, go and Google them, you know, all these people. But I think in that situation, you're probably the minority trap. I think most people see the Facebook ad.
Travis:
Talk
Jono:
You
Travis:
people.
Jono:
know what? Yeah. See the Facebook ad. I'm just going to click it into my details.
Jen:
Do you feel like moms do the research though? Do you
Jono:
Oh,
Jen:
know what I mean? Like moms
Jono:
yeah.
Jen:
wanna know who they're working with. They wanna click on something and spend some time with that person before they just buy.
Travis:
The other thing I just want to touch on as well, where we keep touching on everyone,
Jen:
Hmm,
Travis:
I say something and
Jen:
so
Travis:
then
Jen:
many
Travis:
John is like,
Jen:
touch-ons.
Travis:
I just want
Jen:
Hehehehe.
Travis:
to add on the, like if you're going to do that other stuff, it costs a lot of money. You know, like if you're going to spend this money on flies, if you're going to spend money on wrapping your car, if you're going to spend money on, you'd get a better ROI on return on investment by putting
Jen:
Interesting.
Travis:
that money on a Facebook ad, you know? And then the other thing is like going, giving talks, awesome. That's a great strategy as well. If you've got the time to do it, you know,
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
like you've got to have the time in the end, like to be able to get in there and do that. So, Facebook ads, there's no time like, I mean, apart from making the calls, which
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
we
Jono:
you do
Travis:
highly,
Jono:
them anyway
Travis:
highly
Jono:
you
Travis:
recommend.
Jono:
do the calls anyway someone's going to inquire
Travis:
Right.
Jono:
you know what i mean yeah
Travis:
Yeah. You know, like it's, and it's just such a low cost. Like it, it's a real low cost entry. You don't, you're not paying. I don't know what it costs to get it. Maybe you can get a magnet on your car or something like that. But
Jen:
think the thing about the car is it's a one off cost, right? And then it's there forever. It might cost you
Travis:
True.
Jen:
four or 500 bucks, you do it once everyone sees you in the community and you get
Travis:
Yeah,
Jen:
that
Travis:
I was
Jen:
that.
Travis:
at all. I thought
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
it would have cost a lot more than that. I thought it would have been like three, four thousand dollars to get something fancy on your car.
Jen:
Might be
Travis:
I've
Jen:
a
Travis:
got
Jen:
thousand,
Travis:
no idea.
Jen:
but it depends.
Travis:
You know, I've got no
Jen:
Yeah.
Travis:
idea. But it's like with an ad, it's like that's it.
Jen:
Yeah, interesting.
Travis:
200 bucks, 300 bucks like done.
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
And
Jen:
Okay.
Travis:
you get a real and you get a real obvious return on it. Like, you don't know. I mean, you might know someone's I saw your car, you know, but like, you know, on the Facebook ad that you got 30 leads
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
and three sales.
Jen:
Yeah.
Jono:
Because
Jen:
And then.
Jono:
if there's everything bad about Facebook, the one thing they're good at is data collection. So you'll know exactly, you
Jen:
Very, very
Jono:
know.
Jen:
true. Your data as well as the leads data. But anyway, um, Trav, you mentioned email sequences before. So, you know, one of my questions was, is if people, let's say they've got, I don't know, 50 leads come in, five people actually answer the phone call, the people that are going into Do you put them straight into a specific nurture sequence for from the ad, or do you put them directly into your email list? So they get your weekly emails, like what's the best
Travis:
Nah,
Jen:
option?
Travis:
nah, you want it straight into an email sequence for an ad. You know,
Jen:
Okay.
Travis:
this is Jono has the copy ideas for this. And, you know, I put in the automation stuff on our end now with our systems. But it's like three, four emails immediately, you
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
know, so like three, four emails one day after the next. Buy now, buy now, buy now, basically, you know, buy now it's on a discount or buy now it's like get the special off. It starts next week or specifically off that ad running. with that timeframe of, you know, like, hey, it's kicking off in, you know, this is your last chance that kicks off on Monday, basically.
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
And it's, it's a targeted sequence of three or four emails daily, essentially, which in conjunction with,
Jen:
Three,
Travis:
you
Jen:
four emails daily, did you just say?
Travis:
know, sorry, sorry. Three, four emails, one each
Jen:
Oh,
Travis:
day.
Jen:
one each day? Okay, fuck.
Travis:
Yeah, sorry, sorry. Yeah. So three or four emails, one each
Jen:
That's
Travis:
day,
Jen:
a lot. Yeah.
Travis:
followed by like in conjunction with, you know, a call each day for three or so days.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
if they're not answering a text message each day for like, for that sort of sequence. Yeah, so you're really trying
Jono:
You
Travis:
to get
Jono:
can automate
Travis:
in
Jono:
that
Travis:
front
Jono:
text
Travis:
of them.
Jono:
as well, Trav. It can be. You can automate the text as well if you wanted to touch
Travis:
Yeah,
Jono:
on that.
Travis:
yeah, exactly. Yeah, so for us, how it would work on our end using the systems that we have set up would be they inquire, they automatically get an email that's like a thingshift inquiry and some information. They get a text message that's like, hey, we've actually sent you an email with the information so be sure to check your junk and spam
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
because it is going to go through, not everyone's going to land in the inbox, it's just the way it is. And only 20, 30% of people are going to open that email, but that's much higher we find when you've accompanied with that text message. because people will go looking for it. Couple of messages and then the last day, ideally it's like a text message, hey, just give me the last chance, do you wanna sign up, we kick
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
off Monday. And you only do this obviously if you haven't spoken to the person. If you speak to the person, you can remove them from those sequences. Yeah, especially if they buy, obviously. But
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
yeah, the automating
Jen:
I think that
Travis:
is the way to go.
Jen:
yeah, I think that's one thing a lot of people don't
Jono:
See, I'll just
Jen:
do
Jono:
add
Jen:
is
Jono:
that.
Jen:
contacting people enough. Was I, yeah, sorry, I thought I'd muted myself. No, I was just saying that I think a lot of people give up too soon on the leads that come in. They're like, oh, I tried to call
Jono:
Yeah.
Jen:
them once. They're not gonna answer me.
Travis:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that's 100% what happens. People are like, Oh, yeah, I tried to call them. Okay, when? Yesterday. Okay, once?
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Travis:
Yeah, they didn't answer. Or yeah, they definitely, you know, and that's where, you know, like, Jono had mentioned some of the stuff like understanding a sales call, understanding a sales script is so vital. But Jono, you're gonna say something?
Jono:
Yeah, yeah, I think there's so many kind of key points there. I think, and even we're pretty conservative with the amount of contacts. A lot of kind of sales and marketing seminars I go to, they kind of say, call the contact at least nine times before giving
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
up. We're like three. I'm a three. I'll call today, tomorrow, the next day, obviously with emails and text messages as well. But I'm kind of
Travis:
And
Jono:
like,
Travis:
that adds up to about 9 though.
Jono:
that is true. That is true. I guess total with that, you know, it's nine there. But yeah, even in the sales side of things, that's considered quite passive. So yeah, I think that's key there. And I think the other key there is the automation side of things. If you're bad with tech, it can sound a bit intimidating, but once you've got it set up, it just makes things so much easier because today, like always
Travis:
If you actually
Jono:
not even
Travis:
run
Jono:
on pants.
Travis:
a successful ad, if you actually run a successful
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
ad and get 30 or 40 or 50 leads,
Jono:
And you don't have the
Travis:
and
Jono:
time.
Travis:
you don't have stuff set up, it's a nightmare.
Jono:
Yeah,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
and like A, you want to have the time, but B, most people just won't answer. It is what it is. You can either complain, oh, they're not answering, blah, or you can have some automation set up. So even if they don't answer, maybe they get the email. Okay, maybe if they don't get the email, they get the text. And you hope out of those things,
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
you'll get at least one point of contact in there.
Jen:
Absolutely. Okay, so if you had someone that is sitting on the fence around doing Facebook ads, what would you say to them? I mean, I think I know the answer anyway, but what do you think would get them over the line to start? Maybe they could come talk to you guys to get some hand holding because a lot of people just don't know where to start on their own.
Jono:
Yeah, I would say this, right? Yeah, that's 100%. What I would do is I would DM me or Travis and say, guys,
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
can you send me up your Facebook ads? We'll give you a money back guarantee. So we're so certain that,
Jen:
Until next time.
Jono:
providing you fit that criteria, yeah, we're so certain it'll work. If it doesn't, we'll give you a money back guarantee. So there's nothing to lose from that person's edge there. But there's probably just one thing I've got to say here as well. Me and Travis are talking about this from people that have run thousands of ads over the past 10 years. So we kind of know an inside out. I feel like
Jen:
Mm.
Jono:
what we're saying, Trav, is like, if you just came to us, we could do this in 15. I think I've even done it with your mom, Jen. I think it was on there
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
and I was like, yeah, I'll hang around, let's all set up the
Jen:
Yep.
Jono:
ad together. So like, we can do it, because we know step by step. But if the person doesn't know how to do it, that's where it may not work. So I'd recommend, yeah, speak to us, get us to do it. We give you money back guarantee. We've got courses that cover it as well. You can go through that step by step. But I'd say that's probably the one caveat. I just want to be careful that someone does this on their own and it doesn't work. And they're like, you guys told me you were getting $10 leads and yada, yada. It's kind of like we're talking about it from a lens that have done
Travis:
Hmm.
Jono:
it so much and we know it works. So I think that's just
Travis:
I
Jono:
one.
Travis:
mean, realistically, if you sort of have an idea what you're doing, you could probably walk away with us
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
like being able to do it after
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
today's conversation. But you know, like it's one of these things if you don't know where to start. And again, I would say this is where we, I suppose, are different to maybe other businesses and other brands that, you know, as I said, those backhanded compliments from the beginning is that quite often, you know, we'll set these things up or we'll do these things with people, but then they'll message and say, hey, How do I do this again? And we spend the time with people like Jono
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
and I will get on a call with someone. And then we let them, they keep that copy. Like our whole thing is like, we'll set it up for you once and then you just duplicate it and choose your photos. Like it's, we're not trying to take you for a ride or anything like that. Like, you know, whereas, you know, if you go with a lot of marketing agencies, it's the retainer for the monthly thing. And sometimes they're just literally turning on and off the ad
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
and
Jono:
If
Travis:
you're
Jono:
that,
Travis:
paying them.
Jono:
sometimes
Travis:
Yeah.
Jono:
I even forget to do that. That wasn't the hard way.
Travis:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We've worked with people that we paid good money to.
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
And they just like, oh, sorry, I forgot to turn your ad on. And what are we paying
Jono:
Thank
Travis:
you
Jono:
you.
Travis:
like a couple
Jen:
I forgot
Travis:
of grand a month
Jen:
to do...
Travis:
for?
Jen:
Wow.
Travis:
You know, like,
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
you know, whereas for us, it's I don't know, I don't like it's that we're not hiding behind secrets or anything like
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
that. You know what I mean? I think it's we're here to help people.
Jen:
Yep, yep. Is there anything that I've missed that people need to know at this kind of entry level?
Travis:
No, I don't think so. It's, I think it's realistically, people often say, I don't wanna do advertising until later on down the track. I don't wanna do this until I've got more people. I don't wanna, they always put it like further down the track and I think it's just something that is an investment. And I really
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
think you need to look at it this way. I think you need to approach it as an investment into your business and. You know, like, like we said, we're not talking huge amounts of money, you know, like, um, maybe I've lost touch with the common man or something like that, but we're not, we're not talking huge amounts of money to go like, hey, if you, if you've got,
Jono:
It's relative anyway. It's close to
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
yeah,
Jono:
one coin.
Travis:
yeah. If you, if you, if you can't put one client's costs back into like trying to get more people into your business, you probably, you might have some other issues, right? Like, um, you know, and maybe that's why, maybe that's why you've only got. limited numbers to start with, right?
Jen:
Mm.
Travis:
So, so it, I just think people put it down the down the path of either too hard or, you know, like, it's too expensive, or, you know, like, I just think it's something that it's so beneficial. And I've seen it. And we've seen it like with hundreds of businesses now. Yeah, the transformation that a good ad can have.
Jen:
Mm-hmm.
Jono:
I agree with
Jen:
Cool.
Jono:
Jeff.
Jen:
Anything else, Jonah? Are you good?
Jono:
Oh, no, that was my
Jen:
I was like,
Jono:
closing one.
Jen:
I'm good, cool.
Jono:
I
Jen:
So if people
Jono:
was like,
Jen:
have
Jono:
does
Jen:
been...
Jono:
this guy have a clubhouse dance? He just stands there and has a scalp butter?
Jen:
No, we're not. We're not. I do say goodbye and all those things. No,
Jono:
Okay.
Jen:
what I would actually love is if people did want to get in contact with you guys, like what's the best place for them to find you? Either of you.
Jono:
So, SendTrab's big on TikTok. So SendTrab...
Jen:
Oh,
Jono:
Nah,
Jen:
I you actually on Tiktok. Lots of dancing. Yep.
Jono:
nah, nah. Our Facebook group. Yeah, yeah, our Facebook
Jen:
Uh, yeah,
Jono:
group
Jen:
you guys
Jono:
is
Jen:
have
Jono:
probably
Jen:
got a great
Jono:
the best.
Jen:
Facebook group. Yep.
Jono:
Yeah, yeah, so just join that, make a post, send me your
Travis:
Fitness
Jono:
travel DM.
Travis:
Education
Jono:
Yeah.
Travis:
Online Community Group. If you're,
Jen:
Yeah, that's a good
Travis:
yeah,
Jen:
idea, right?
Travis:
just if you're unaware.
Jen:
The name of the Facebook group.
Travis:
Yeah,
Jen:
Ha ha ha.
Travis:
if you're unaware, jump in. Yeah, jump in. Fitness Education Online Community Group. Look up Jono or myself. Make a post if you can't look us up, send us a message. And
Jen:
Yep.
Travis:
that, yeah, well, the website, obviously, we've got, as I said, we've got tons of CC courses and tons of options available as well.
Jen:
Awesome. I appreciate you both coming on. I have been like I dabble in Facebook ads and I've had different people help me out along the over the years but I always feel a little bit uneasy around Facebook advertising and I like to have the conversations that challenge my thinking and then also offer people that I work with a lot of skills in places that I don't have them. So I appreciate you guys jumping in and having this conversation. Thank you.
Travis:
It's a pleasure.
Jen:
Have an awesome rest of your afternoon.
Travis:
Thanks,
Jen:
Bye!
Travis:
Jim.
Jono:
Thank you, Jen.
