Jen (00:00.701)
switches.
Sucheta Pal (00:01.934)
Yeah.
Jen (00:03.293)
So Cheta, so Cheta, welcome to the Mumsafe Movement podcast. How are you?
Sucheta Pal (00:08.846)
I'm so excited to be here. I've been waiting all week. Thank you so much for having me, Jen.
Jen (00:14.717)
Thank you for agreeing to come on here. I remember when on Instagram it popped up and it said that you'd started following me and I sent you a message and we've kind of continued to chat since then. So very excited to be speaking to somebody in a very different country to where we are in Australia. Do you wanna? Well, I think we're gonna determine that throughout the course of the conversation, right? And see that this is potentially a global, it's a global message and a global problem that we're both.
Sucheta Pal (00:31.693)
But I think we feel the same way.
Right, yes.
Jen (00:43.037)
working towards and that we're really passionate about. Yeah, me too. Let us kick off with a word to share how you're showing up today. Something that you're winning at and then something that you're working on.
Sucheta Pal (00:46.062)
Looking forward to sharing thoughts.
Sucheta Pal (00:57.805)
I think I feel very rested. Before the podcast, you know, we were speaking about how I came back from a midi vacation. So that's so needed, I think as mums and as women in this world that we need those little mini breaks, little rest time. So I feel very rested. And what am I winning at? I think overcoming my fears. In India, I was just recently part of an ebook.
which talks about 23 women who showed up with courage and when they're into I know thank you, but I was like really they have me on that book, but as I started talking about my little stories with them, I realized that I am winning with courage and Not only in the big things in life, but just showing up every day, you know waking up as
an entrepreneur, waking up as a coach, waking up as a mom and showing up for myself and the world, I think that's a win. It's not just about the big things. And I think your last question was, what am I looking forward to?
Jen (01:59.261)
Hmm.
Jen (02:06.589)
What are you working on?
Sucheta Pal (02:08.075)
What am I working on? I am working on something very exciting, which is creating awareness in India about the gap between what women really need after they've popped the baby and what the mainstream fitness industry is actually giving them. I know you feel me, Jen.
Jen (02:29.373)
I do, I do. Let's bring these events to us. We'll do a global tour on that very topic.
Sucheta Pal (02:34.667)
Done. I'm excited about that.
Jen (02:37.597)
Nice, and we'll go into that, I think. And it's interesting that you said the word gap. I was like, you know, there's a metaphor in like, abdominal separation gap, in gap between what we need and gap between, yeah, there's so many different directions that we can go with that. I really liked what you just said about being rested and saying that we need that. And it's something that I've been reflecting on. I was thinking, I actually am going through a bit of a roller coaster in my world for a number of reasons, mostly, not so small child, but.
I was like, I need to get away. And then there was this other little part of me going, but you've got so much to do, you can't get away. And so hearing you say that potentially was the message that I needed to hear right now to go, actually, you need to get away to be able to hold everything that you're trying to hold right now.
Sucheta Pal (03:13.513)
Right.
Sucheta Pal (03:25.705)
You can't pour from an empty cup. And I think it's so important that we take care of ourselves and it's not selfish. And we've been brought up as women to think that self -care is selfish, taking out time for yourself is selfish. But I think it's one of the most unselfish things to do.
Jen (03:28.733)
Hmm.
Sucheta Pal (03:50.345)
because you're just not doing it for yourself. You're doing it with the intention. I really believe the intention is so important. So in India, you're a lot into spirituality, right? And I follow some amazing spiritual gurus. And one thing that stands out among all their teachings is with what intention are you doing something? So I really feel Jen, is your intention is so pure that you want to take a break. You want to get out of your...
daily mundane things sometimes it becomes so mundane and take out that time to rejuvenate because you want to do it so that you can do more and I really feel that good people should take more breaks because you want to do more good things in life.
Jen (04:32.669)
like an Instagram quote, good people should take more breaks. I like that. I really like that. Yeah, I like that. I'm going to hold that thought and I'm going to reflect on it some more and potentially book a weekend away. Yeah, to India. I would love to do that. I would love to. Actually, I was on a flight from Australia to the UK a few months ago and we actually had to divert to India.
Sucheta Pal (04:35.784)
Yes. Your intention is amazing.
Sucheta Pal (04:44.743)
To India!
Sucheta Pal (04:50.568)
You should.
Jen (05:01.757)
remember what airport it was and we were touched down on the timeout for like three hours and then we took off and disappeared again. So I've been to India but I've not been out of a plane and my daughter's name is India so I should definitely come to India.
Sucheta Pal (05:10.983)
wow, yeah, absolutely. Aren't you on for a trip to Asia for your teaching at a convention, I think?
Jen (05:23.613)
No, I'm not going to Asia this year. So yeah, yeah. Could have been, could have been definitely. Sucheta, could you please tell us who you are? Give us your background. You can go as far back as you'd like to and how your background has got you to where you are today. And that is amongst all the beautiful, wonderful other things that you do working with mums and women.
Sucheta Pal (05:25.895)
so then that could have been like a detour.
Sucheta Pal (05:52.294)
Absolutely. I always call myself an accidental educator. So I've always been a geek. I'm an engineer. That's my qualification. Yes, electrical electronics. I studied a lot. And then I worked in corporate, the nine to nine job. But I felt really, really, really unwell. I had a lot of gut issues. I had IBS.
Jen (06:03.933)
Sucheta Pal (06:17.253)
And at that time, 15 years back, no one was speaking about it in India. So it was really embarrassing to show up at work with all these health issues as a young 25 year old. And the only solace that I really could find was when I used to dance. That was something that I really was passionate about, but never pursued professionally when I was younger. So at 25, I decided to quit my Kushini corporate job that I call it.
and pursue my professional dance training. This was in Mumbai in India. It was very tough because you have, at the end of the month, I used to get a very nice salary and suddenly that didn't come into my bank and I had to do three part -time jobs. It was tough, but things slowly changed. We got married, then boyfriend, now husband, and then we moved to the US. And in America, we discovered,
various fitness formats and dance formats. And as my husband was off to work, I used to go and scout these studios for new dance formats and fitness formats. And that's where I discovered Zumba. I was like, what is this? This is fun. This is dance. It's making me feel fitter. It's so fun. And I had no idea it was a brand or it was a company based in Miami. I just went for the fun of it. And then one of the instructors there said, hey, you're good, Indian girl, you're good.
Jen (07:30.589)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (07:44.995)
And they made me do all the Bollywood songs in the class.
Jen (07:49.693)
That's cool.
Sucheta Pal (07:52.291)
So I was called the Indian Zumba girl there. And thanks to them, I did my certification there, taught in the US for two years. And the company wanted me to come to India. I was selected to become its first master trainer. So it's called the Zumba Education Specialist. It was back in 2012. I had no idea about the fitness world of India. I just was literally dropped onto the Indian soil again. Now go grow the brand.
Jen (08:02.461)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (08:21.059)
train the trainers, right? So I call myself an accidental educator where it was just started with health issues, passion for dance, and then things just change completely for me. For the last decade, I have really loved helping the brand Zumba grow in India. I think I've trained around 15 ,000. I have 15 ,000 Zumba babies. I know across Asia, just not India.
Jen (08:21.533)
Huh.
Jen (08:44.893)
Wow.
Yep.
Sucheta Pal (08:48.162)
And I had the opportunity to travel like 15 plus countries, you know, as an educator, presenter in India, you know, worked on their marketing side and strategy. So that gave me such a sense of accomplishment that I've added value and created maybe a small legacy in the fitness world in India, where people could think of alternate ways of fitness, especially for women, because in India, we are still skeptical. It's changed. But as women, we are still skeptical to enter the gym because we used to think it's only for bodybuilding.
Jen (09:11.197)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (09:17.121)
It's only to look a certain way. It's only for men. So thankfully with this format and the way that we grew with my amazing community is that we at least got women to start moving. Enter the gym. And then they saw, OK, yeah, OK, there are weight machines. There is a treadmill. OK, there is a person trainer. So they now feel we've created that atmosphere that, OK, now women, at least 70 % of women are now going to the gym. Right. That's amazing, I think. And that.
Jen (09:28.285)
Yes.
Sucheta Pal (09:46.528)
role, Jen, got me to another phase of my life which was pregnancy.
Jen (09:52.445)
Yes.
Sucheta Pal (09:54.464)
That completely now changed my trajectory. And I remember in 2019, just before pandemic, I was in this goal. It was the first of its kind in India. I did a tour across India. It was in my second trimester, teaching seven cities across India, live master classes. I was dancing on stage, teaching hundreds of people. And in India, it's a big deal to move in pregnancy. So there's a lot of myths around it.
Jen (10:21.405)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (10:24.384)
we are actually told by our families that don't move, don't exercise, rest. It's almost like, I wouldn't call it like initially it was considered like, okay, you know what, it's a disease. Today it's much more open. Yeah, yeah. And more about for the care of the baby, like no movement should be there so that the baby is safe. So it took a lot of time for us, a decade to change that thought process. So that was my goal.
Jen (10:38.063)
and injury. Yep. Yeah.
Jen (10:52.157)
Yep.
Sucheta Pal (10:54.239)
And I think it was one of my most beautiful milestones of my life to be able to do that. And then the pandemic hit. And just before pandemic, Jen, I wanted to go back to my, you know, my globe trotting days. And I went for a huge event to teach on stage and I literally peed on stage. I peed my pants. And I say this openly on my social media at two months postpartum.
Jen (11:02.141)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (11:15.133)
no.
Sucheta Pal (11:23.103)
I thought I could bounce back because I was fit during pregnancy. Silly me. And I went on stage and I literally peed my pants. Thankfully no one could see on stage, but I knew. I cannot tell you how broken I felt at that moment. You know, I don't think so. Anyone can feel what we feel as women post -baby. Our bodies change. We talk about, you know, mental health.
And there's a lot of education thankfully today about postpartum depression, but I think a large part of postpartum depression comes from loss of body identity. I cannot emphasize this enough. If we give women that support and the help, which was missing that time in India. So I decided, hey, you know what? I need to heal myself so that I can at least heal one more woman in my life, maybe facing that silently.
So the journey started Jen in 2020 in pandemic where I took and coaching was so expensive because there was none available in India. I had to take it internationally. It was expensive. And I thought no one is going to pay this in India today because there's no awareness. So after I heal myself over a year, it took me a year. I decided to create something of my own. So today, of course I have a parallel journey of in India of, you know,
Zoomba, et cetera. But thankfully in the last decade, I've also studied a lot of fitness science courses, so that helped. And then this additional pre -pository certification, I decided to create my own program, which is much more affordable and it's for women to be able to just begin that healing process. And I'm sure we'll talk more about it eventually.
Jen (13:06.717)
Absolutely, that's your, I'm just looking, I've got written down what it's called. It's the mum, mum bod strong, that's right. I was like, I wasn't sure if it was mum bodied, but yeah, mum bod strong. And we'll definitely put some links to that in the show notes for anyone that wants to check it out. I'm interested, like when you were talking about the stigma around a women, yeah, a women more, yeah, are they more, has that changed now? So yeah, it has. Okay, cool.
Sucheta Pal (13:10.94)
Mom bought strong.
Yes. Yes.
Sucheta Pal (13:19.452)
Yay.
Sucheta Pal (13:26.78)
pregnancy and exercise.
Sucheta Pal (13:33.307)
Yes, yes, it is changing. So I would say if you talk about the metro cities in India, there is much more awareness around movement and exercise. But the funny part is the rural side of India and in India, I don't know if you know this concept, but we have this concept of house help. So we have someone who comes to clean the house every day. We have women who come and cook for us, right? And it's generally women folk. So we have...
been seeing this for decades, Jen, that these women, till their eighth month and ninth month of pregnancy, they're still in our home and doing all the household work. And they are exercising anyway. So why? Like I've seen my mother, they tell us stories that, you know, we used to work on to clean our house and cook till we delivered, we popped a baby like that.
Jen (14:13.885)
So they're exercising anyway.
Yeah.
Jen (14:29.021)
So it's almost like depending on where you are in the hierarchy of society, then you should or shouldn't move your body when you're pregnant. Because if you have to clean and cook, then yes, you can do it, but.
Sucheta Pal (14:40.41)
I think household work and cooking is not even considered exercise for, yeah, it's different. But today, I think because, yeah, I think you're right. I think more privileged we get in society, we forget that our yesteryears, the women of the yesteryears used to work. So there's nothing wrong. But we feel exercise, what we see in the gym.
Jen (14:45.149)
It's different. Yeah.
Jen (15:02.141)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (15:06.681)
You know, the heavy weight lifting, that's what we've been projected, right? On social media, that glass exercise can harm the baby. So there's so much confusion. Whereas our mothers used to do body weight training when they used to lift heavy laundry. But today we are like sitting at home, maybe gentle walking, and that's just safe. Yeah.
Jen (15:10.972)
Yeah.
Jen (15:15.517)
Mm.
Jen (15:23.677)
Absolutely.
Jen (15:29.949)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's funny when you actually think about the controlled environment of a gym and lifting weights or whatever it is compared to the absolutely non controlled environment of lifting a washing basket and then grabbing something else and doing these things. It's probably the complete opposite, right? In terms of safety. Anyway, I think it's the fact that you got on stage in your second trimester and you showed the world that you could.
Sucheta Pal (15:45.016)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jen (15:58.429)
move your body and exercise throughout that then I think that's fantastic. What a legacy to kind of to leave and I know that's not the only one. So continue from there. So you've you've created your program and something you said to me before was
Sucheta Pal (16:05.367)
Thank you.
Jen (16:20.893)
We started to talk initially about the gap. So what, let's start with what do moms mostly come to see you for, or what are they feeling, do you think, when they start searching for your program?
Sucheta Pal (16:35.511)
weight loss.
Jen (16:36.829)
Yeah and I've I actually wrote down so you've got a beautiful post on Instagram I think it was another podcast you did where you were talking about a strong body not a thin body. Let's go down that road to start with because yeah.
Sucheta Pal (16:46.038)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (16:50.934)
So I, whenever a woman, so I'm here for the woman behind the mother, because there's a whole medical fraternity who's taking care of the baby and when you're pregnant, everyone is for you, but we are forgotten once we pop the baby. So I'm here for the woman behind the mother. And I understand where they come from when they tell me, hey, I really want to look like how I was pre -baby. I really want to lose my weight. I'm suffering with weight gain. So I never, I've,
You know, I used to be judgmental because you know, the educator in me like, why you don't know that core and pelvic floor rehabilitation is important. You know, the elite educator. Then I realized what a mistake. Let's be compassionate towards, you know, our women because that's not their fault that they're thinking this way. You know, whether we like it or not, it's the patriarchal society. It's not our fault.
Jen (17:34.941)
Hmm.
Sucheta Pal (17:48.021)
We've been asked to look a certain way in every phase of our lives as women. And we feel that if we get back to our pre -pregnancy weight, we are fit. So I think when a woman comes to me and says that I want to lose weight, I say, absolutely. But listen, the first year, even the second year of your pregnancy, there are five other factors that's going to affect.
the reasons why you can't lose that stubborn extra fat. And I listed down and I asked them, do you sleep? Like, do you get your at least six hours of, they say no. Are you stressed? Which mothers are always are. Yes, I'm stressed. So when I give them these five reasons and I tell them that, okay, are you in this phase? And I tell them the science. I don't believe Jen that we give them the,
one question that do you sleep? And they say no. And then I say, okay, that's why you can't lose your extra fat. And then I leave them there. I explained to them the signs of why lack of sleep is causing that fat to be still be stored. Because I think for the longest time, we've treated women as people who will not understand the science of fitness. Like why? Give them, don't you crave Jen, right? When you go and meet a doctor and they just give you a prescription and they feel that you won't understand the reason.
Jen (19:06.269)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (19:14.836)
You feel so frustrated. I feel as educators and coaches, it is our duty to educate in simple layman language, what is the science of fitness or what is the science of wellness, whatever it is, when they know this. For example, sleep, I'm sure all of you have used know it, but you know, the cortisol spikes and how it will store your fat and it'll be difficult for it to lose fat. You know how the whole the fight and flight response gets into the beat.
You know, make it fun by taking the examples of the tiger attacking you or, you know, all of that, and they understand it. And then they realize that, okay, you know what? I have to be patient with my weight loss, but there is something else that I can do first. So when I start on my weight loss or fat loss journey with nutrition and with exercise and all of that sleep, my foundation is super strong. So then I very, very compassionately with respect, I feel there has to be mutual respect and compassion.
Jen (19:56.957)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (20:12.818)
by giving them, by saying, yes, I feel you. I know that fat loss is important for you. At the same time, this year, this is the education of why you're not able to do it. And then slowly, slowly tell them what is important and what is doable. And then they are so open to it. And I think that's the coaching I give. I'm not a coach, coach Jen, who's going to do personal classes one -on -one. I'm a coach and educator, I feel, who creates awareness and gives them...
Jen (20:28.893)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (20:40.785)
When I say close the gap between a woman who's popped the baby and then them rushing into burpees in a gym is I am that gap closer to education and awareness. And then I have a program which is pre -recorded that you can do it at your own will, at your own time, which gives you that foundation of how to get started and how to repair your body and how to heal your body. And if you need more help, I am there, I am there one -on -one private sessions or coaching, absolutely.
Jen (21:07.773)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (21:10.416)
But I feel, and I never tell them, hey, take my course. I tell them, hey, is there a physiotherapist next to your home that you'll be more comfortable? Please go there. If you're not comfortable with my program, you don't want to do it pre -recorded, just go, but please go to a physiotherapist. I think that is so important, Jen, in India right now. Not that, come, come to my program.
Jen (21:19.197)
Yep.
Jen (21:28.477)
Yeah, I think the thing that I really liked that you touched on there was about acknowledging what she's saying to you and then understanding and then educating which gives her power and at no point in that conversation is there a level of shame because I do think that we flipped very hard sometimes from
Sucheta Pal (21:39.728)
knowledge.
Jen (21:58.109)
women shouldn't be in bigger bodies and now if they want to be in a smaller body then that is shameful. So it's almost like women can't say out loud that they may want to lose weight anymore.
Sucheta Pal (22:04.752)
Yeah.
Jen (22:11.421)
Mm. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (22:13.391)
And I feel when we create an environment of non -judgment, it can do wonders for our women. And then they're open to hearing different perspectives about their health and fitness and their bodies. That's so important.
Jen (22:28.637)
Yeah, and you've offered them a foundation for their future, the whole life ahead. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (22:34.318)
Yeah, yeah. And also, you know, I feel that when we train our women, it's for real life when they, suppose they carry a baby and they're having back pain, explain to them why they're having back pain than making a video about diastasis recti, right? So if we tell them the real purpose of why they should heal their deep abdominal muscles,
Jen (22:51.677)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (23:02.062)
because they're having back pain and explain to them the reason of it, they are now more open to understanding diastasis recti. I think that's where I feel that if we give them real life examples of how their quality of life will improve, forget the gym, but first real life, I think they'll be so open. Because in India, I'll be honest, even I never did weight training till I was...
Jen (23:24.317)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (23:31.757)
25, 30. I was never open to it. I always thought that it was something that men should do. Still today, even in my close proximity of my family and friends, there are very few of us who actually are hitting the gym or doing weight training at home. They would walk, they would dance, you know, they would do yoga, which is of course both strength and flexibility, but hardcore, like lifting weights, it's still a new thing.
So to, I can't use that language in India where I will tell them, hey, get back to your lifting weights. But they are lifting weights in at home. You know, they are lifting weights in various ways at home.
Jen (24:08.573)
Yeah, okay.
Mmm.
Jen (24:15.805)
And that makes me think then about the different types of exercise that are maybe more common in India. So whether it's Zumba or whether it's more traditional dance. Yeah. And what about all the bouncing? So if, well, I guess if you're, I mean, I guess Zumba, but if you're doing traditional Indian dance, is there a lot of, I don't feel like there's, is there a lot of bouncing if women had, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how then?
Sucheta Pal (24:23.948)
Yoga, it's very famous.
Sucheta Pal (24:30.124)
What do you mean?
Sucheta Pal (24:41.588)
yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Jen (24:45.597)
I mean, it's almost like there's a different segue into the conversation around rebuilding your body and pelvic floor. Because when you take dance away from somebody, I imagine, well, everyone, people would argue with me that the gym, it's terrible to take away, but I feel like dance, whether it's when it's inbuilt into your culture, as well as into your...
Sucheta Pal (25:02.731)
They are so open. Yeah, we are so open to it because it's just inbuilt, as you said, in our culture. So if I have to encourage someone to come and join dance sessions or whatever, Zubah, Bollywood with me, they would definitely be open. And that's what we do, you know, just to get them back into movement. I think that's a great way for anyone to start in India.
Jen (25:08.221)
Hmm.
Jen (25:25.053)
Yeah.
Jen (25:29.437)
Yeah, and then is there a conversation around pelvic floor in that environment?
Sucheta Pal (25:33.419)
Very less. my goodness, Jen. I don't think so we talk about it. It's embarrassing to talk about our urinary incontinence. When I started speaking about it, I saw DMs, not comments, right? Like messages coming to me. I said, this is amazing. And you don't have to comment. It's okay. But at least you came and you spoke to me. One out of five.
Jen (25:40.477)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (25:52.797)
Yes.
Sucheta Pal (26:03.914)
Women in India today post -baby are suffering from that, but they think it's normal and we are told to live with it post -baby and we are and very silently we are living with it. So that's one of my major goals is to talk openly about being my fans and talking about it both in a fun way and a serious way because if I don't joke about it.
Jen (26:24.573)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (26:31.113)
If I don't say these words, peeing my pants, you know, I can't break the ice. So I'll tell you a funny incident that happened. I was teaching in one of the cities last month and it was at a dance fitness carnival and we had different workshops, just not dance. And I was teaching one of my workshops and I named it Move Like a Mother. It was on Mother's Day. And I was talking about, you know, the pelvic floor and it was a combination of women and men that were attending, 200.
And when my session came, suddenly the men were all towards the end of the room, right? They were like doing their thing and all of that. And I told them, hey, if you're a mother, you're supposed to sit here. If you have a mother...
Jen (27:17.501)
Ha ha.
You need to sit here too.
Sucheta Pal (27:20.136)
sit here too. And if you have a pelvic floor, you definitely need to sit here and everyone has a pelvic floor. And they were shocked to know that they have a pelvic floor.
Jen (27:31.389)
Yeah, and that they could suffer incontinence at some point in their lives.
Sucheta Pal (27:34.92)
Absolutely, you know, and I really felt the need of sharing the fact that I peed my pants and I could see embarrassed men, you know, faces because they've never seen me, you know, they've always seen me on stage presenting, you know, the glamorous side of it. And then suddenly I tell them, hey, listen, I peed my pants. And they're like, okay, where do I look now? But, you know, you have to create that kind of shock.
among people for them to sit up and listen to you. And so I no longer feel embarrassed about it because I feel that once we start this conversation, we can at least start other conversations. And now women are openly commenting and telling about their stories, which is amazing. So I think that is so important and crucial, Jen, that if we are going through something in India as women and as coaches, I always encourage
Jen (28:02.365)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (28:32.198)
my coaches to talk about it because we cannot project ourselves as perfect. We have to project ourselves as human, which we are, and then we'll get more people to come to us and then we can provide solutions. So in India, I feel that's one major gap that we feel that the pelvic floor is still something which is taboo. We are not sent. I'm sure in Australia you are recommended to go to a pelvic floor therapist or not. In India, no.
Jen (28:57.181)
Only if you stumble. Yeah, it's I mean, I was gonna ask you about like the postpartum process. But here in Australia, if you stumble upon a personal trainer or an obstetrician or a GP that understands the relevance and the benefit of seeing a pelvic health physio, then yes, but it's absolutely not standard. And we have six week checkups and there'll be no mention of pelvic health physios. There'll be no men, there'll be no checking of pelvic floors, nothing. So.
Sucheta Pal (29:17.958)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (29:25.285)
same.
Jen (29:25.981)
I feel like we're kind of closer because, you know, the fitness industry, well, the bubble that I'm in is everyone's talking about their pelvic floors, partly because I work with trainers that work with moms, but it's, it's, there's a groundswell happening, but it's still not, not big enough, not wide enough. It's not the general conversation. And women are not automatically referred to see a pelvic health physio. I'm interested, I was interested that you even have pelvic health physios because,
Sucheta Pal (29:43.493)
out there.
Jen (29:55.549)
I teach in Taiwan and they don't have pelvic health physios.
Sucheta Pal (30:00.453)
Here there are very few. It's a new concept. Like just like your country, which I'm surprised. I was hoping Australia would be much ahead of the times, but I think in European countries, it's mandatory.
Jen (30:13.853)
In France, France. Yeah, in France, I think I don't know if there's any other countries other than France at the moment that send you for a certain amount of pelvic health physio appointments.
Sucheta Pal (30:22.884)
Yeah, yeah. You have to do an entire course, I think. You have to learn about your pelvic floor. I was reading about it sometime in last month. But in India, same, I think in Australia, during your pregnancy or prenatal, like your visits are like every month. And then once you pop the baby, it's once at six weeks and there is no diastasis rectal check. There's no pelvic floor health check, nothing.
And we are given that green signal to, okay, start your gentle movements and exercise. Sometimes if you have a C -sec, there are still doctors who would say, do not move till six months. Like I had, yes, I had a woman recently who messaged me that, you know, I really want to get back and you know, can I start your gentle movements? Absolutely, you know, you're at your two months mark, but please ask your doctor.
Jen (31:06.173)
What?
Sucheta Pal (31:18.146)
tell, show her the plan and all of that. And she said, no, no, no, I had a CSEC and my doctor has strictly told me six months. Now I cannot override that. It's just not, you know, it's not in my scope of work to override that. So at least I told her, at least go for gentle walk, start with your breath work. But yeah, that's, that's how redundant sometimes, you know, some of the medical fraternity is in India, but I think I was very lucky.
Jen (31:28.733)
Hmm.
Sucheta Pal (31:47.969)
are my doctors, also you have to choose your doctors. I always tell my women that when you decide to get pregnant, select your doctors, select a doctor who works out. I did, literally, you know, and she was like, if everything is fine in your first trimester scan report, just do what you were doing. They literally came and did my tour, you know, they were part of my tour and they danced with me in my second trimester, which was amazing.
Jen (31:59.837)
Hmm.
Jen (32:15.293)
sick.
Sucheta Pal (32:16.737)
And at six weeks, you know, thankfully she had a team who helped me out, but most, no, not happening in India yet. It's tough.
Jen (32:24.029)
Hmm.
Yeah, I know I definitely had an experience where I tried to send a client to see a pelvic health physiotherapist in pregnancy, just to make sure that she could release a pelvic floor. And she ran it by a GP and the GP said no. And it's like, how do I? I think I did say ignore your GP. I wasn't as respectful as you were. But you're right. It's like in the hierarchy of the people that mums should be trusting.
Sucheta Pal (32:40.993)
Mmm.
Jen (32:55.197)
we're probably down here. And the unfortunate thing is that many exercise professionals that have chosen to educate themselves in this space have more education than a medical professional who are amazing at their job, but they're so narrow and so almost so blinkered in what they do that there's not a natural multidisciplinary approach, whereas...
Sucheta Pal (33:12.16)
Well...
Jen (33:21.309)
we go looking for that because we understand our scope of practice and we understand the people that we want on our team. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (33:23.232)
Yes.
Sucheta Pal (33:29.184)
I really feel Jen that like what I am trying to do, it's an uphill task, that I remember when I was pregnant, my hospital offered me sessions with the lactation expert, Lamar's classes. There was a very, very good doctor who was also, you know, someone who coaches women, like there are group sessions on the exercises for good labor and all of that, although I had a CSEC, but you know.
Jen (33:34.397)
Hmm.
Sucheta Pal (33:58.719)
All of that. And I feel what if the hospitals recognize that you can still hold a woman's hand at least one year postpartum. And maybe in the eighth and ninth month, call all the women for a group session, a workshop with people like you and me in our countries and educate them about, okay, the first six weeks, this is what's going to happen to your postpartum body. This is how you take care.
from six weeks to 12 weeks, this is a plan. Hey, this is your pre -recorded, you know, I know you can't come and do sessions, but hey, can you start with these basic gentle movements? Let the hospital collaborate with people like us and create a program that we can just give out. And then after six months, hey, this is your return to exercise, you know, format nutrition plan and all of that. So isn't it wonderful for hospitals also to sell their offers? And it's a business after all, when they become...
Jen (34:54.045)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (34:56.03)
these game changers in their industry and they promote their hospitals like, hey, we will hold the woman's hand, the mother's hand, even after they pop the baby. I'm literally on that mission right now, Jen, when I'm talking to hospitals on that. Because there are millions of coaches who are doing pregnancy and prenatal yoga and all of that, but no, nothing happening post -baby.
Jen (35:05.533)
Hmm.
Jen (35:10.269)
Yeah.
Jen (35:14.845)
Yep.
Jen (35:19.229)
so much postpartum. What's the response you get from hospitals? Because I know here in Australia, they don't want like a public hospital does not want to talk to a private personal trainer. Is it different in India?
Sucheta Pal (35:29.661)
Yeah, yeah. I have just started the process and I have got good response from two, but we are still in that conversation. One of them who heads one of the private hospitals is the COO. He's my college friend. So I'm like, you have to do it. So that works. So it's just, it's a very uphill task. I agree.
Jen (35:38.941)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (35:51.549)
Yes he does!
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (35:59.068)
Like I've spoken to so many hospitals on my own and the response has been, because there's no business, right? Like post -baby, there's no business with the woman anymore. But I feel it's such a great way for retention. You know, if you talk about business, so how I talk to hospitals is, hey, you're creating a community and these same women are going to come to you, to your hospitals for perimenopause and menopause.
Jen (36:24.253)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (36:25.243)
So you've built that amazing community of support and they trust you that they have supported, that they have not forgotten the woman and they come back for their visits. And there are so many issues that women go through. It's a great business opportunity. You can do corporate outreaches where you go as a hospital with XYZ trainer, say Jen goes with XYZ corporate for to a corporate outreach on behalf of this hospital, talking to working women returning back to work.
Jen (36:40.669)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (36:55.162)
and Jen does this or Sucheta does this amazing workshop and they become, you know, one of your clients. How amazing. So I feel sometimes hospitals, I mean, it's a trial and error, Jen, that we have to keep approaching them with different ideas and maybe one will click and we've made a difference.
Jen (37:14.205)
Yeah. Yeah. Is there a public health system in India? Okay. I think that's potentially the difference. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (37:18.234)
No, no, we're all private. Yeah, there is, of course, there are government -run hospitals, but it's more for the underprivileged and someone who could not afford the services of private hospitals, but most of us go to private hospitals.
Jen (37:26.077)
Okay.
Jen (37:37.181)
Yeah, that could be a big difference. I mean, we definitely have private hospitals, but a lot of people will still go through the public system for having their babies and all that kind of thing. But then I kind of flip it on the other side and go, well, here's a conversation, a preventative conversation, because if we're educating your women postpartum and in pregnancy, maybe we're going to have less birth injury, then maybe we're going to have less pelvic floor injuries down the track, and it's actually going to cost the health industry less.
Sucheta Pal (37:43.642)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (37:47.61)
Right.
Sucheta Pal (37:56.122)
Right.
Sucheta Pal (38:02.874)
Interesting.
Jen (38:05.437)
if we educate in this way. So it's interesting that there's almost a flip of the switch. Do you guys have health insurance or no? Yeah, so that's where you then, there's an opportunity to contact the health insurers because it would save them the money versus the hospitals. So, yeah.
Sucheta Pal (38:09.978)
Yeah, I like that. I like that. It's very interesting. I need to think about it. Yes, yes, we do.
Sucheta Pal (38:21.409)
Correct. Correct. That's an interesting take on it. I'll definitely think about it. Thank you.
Jen (38:29.565)
Yeah, you're welcome. Very welcome. So I guess what I'm picking up is, you know, you have your baby, there's no kind of checkups prenatally to say, do you have a hypertonic pelvic floor, maybe you're gonna have a hard time pushing a baby out, like none of that stuff. If someone has a birth injury, what what happens then?
Sucheta Pal (38:38.104)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (38:41.656)
No, no, nothing. None of that.
Sucheta Pal (38:48.152)
I think that's when, so I was coming to that, that we are only referred to a pelvic floor therapist is if we have a problem, when we have a problem, a prolapse or a birth injury. And I think the first is also never a pelvic floor therapist or, you know, it's surgery. Yeah, it's surgery for us. It's never therapy. Which even we didn't know, like I would, if I was not in this field.
Jen (38:50.909)
Mmm.
Jen (39:08.381)
Yeah.
Jen (39:12.349)
Yep. It's the...
Sucheta Pal (39:17.016)
I would go for surgery because I know now, I know that there is therapy.
Jen (39:24.541)
Yeah, it's the same here in that if you don't know a pelvic health physio exists, you will listen to your GP who'll send you to a surgeon. And then afterwards you'll wonder why you're going back for prolapse surgery in five, 10 years time, because you've still not done any pelvic floor rehabilitation with a physio. Yep.
Sucheta Pal (39:41.144)
Mmm.
Sucheta Pal (39:45.623)
Right. Interesting. And that's the worst.
Jen (39:52.861)
Yep. So if you could, I don't know, wave a magic wand, what are the key things that you would have done better in the healthcare system for women in India?
Sucheta Pal (40:07.254)
I mean, forget even healthcare, Jain, what I would have done better. I feel it starts from me. I talk about my mistakes in pregnancy. See, you know, before I got pregnant at 37, my biological age was 32, thanks to the fit lifestyle. But even at the age of 35 is when my husband and I decided that, okay, we're gonna get bored in life together. No, but on a serious note.
Jen (40:11.285)
I'm sorry.
Jen (40:36.061)
be living such a peaceful life right now if there wasn't children involved.
Sucheta Pal (40:38.806)
Now you tell me Jen. But on a serious note, we did a lot of research with our families who had kids who didn't choose to have kids and we decided we wanted some adventure. So the adventure may be killing us right now, but we still love it. But we went for that and we prepared our bodies for two years, medical checkups.
Jen (40:43.421)
my gosh.
Jen (40:51.229)
Okay.
Jen (40:58.077)
Yeah, yep.
Sucheta Pal (41:06.357)
to making sure our fertility gets better, to strength training, to cardio, food, nutrition, Ayurveda. It's huge in India, Ayurveda is amazing. So cleansing our body, all of that we prepared and our pregnancy was like one shot. Like, wow, what just happened? We were like in shock when we did it. But I did not know, Jen, that we are supposed to work on our core and pelvic floor even during pregnancy.
So when I was on stage and teaching and events, there was no core engagement. There was no pelvic floor activation happening. And I thought, wow, I'm so fit and strong. So the first thing I think I would change is tell my audience, even if it's five women, the mistakes I made when I was exercising pre -pregnancy and during pregnancy. That's the first step. When it comes to...
The healthcare system, I think I would ask them and request them to make two changes, is really, really educate our women in their eighth and ninth month, not just about labor, but really, really help them understand the body changes. Like give them a reality check of what the body changes are going to happen once they pop their baby. Let them be ready about how their bodies are going to look like, feel like, what are the issues that may happen.
Jen (42:22.493)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (42:33.714)
And then work with people like us, physiotherapists, pelvic floor therapists, and give them a whole roster of support. That, hey, you know what? This is where you can go to right away after I've given you your green signal to a specialist like us or a physiotherapist. If you feel that you have XYZ issues even one year postpartum, yeah, this is help that you can get from a pelvic floor therapist. I think...
Even if you don't collaborate with us directly, but the fact that you're showing initiative and support for women and not forgetting them, I think that is so important for our healthcare system and it's going to make a huge difference. We are here, but people don't know that we are here.
Jen (43:12.765)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yes, yes. And what would you say if you were to, what feedback would you give the fitness industry in general when it comes to exercise professionally?
Sucheta Pal (43:32.914)
to me, you know, I make, I roll my eyes because I used to be that.
Jen (43:37.053)
We all did.
Sucheta Pal (43:40.562)
You know, when I used to teach like regular sessions and my clients used to come back after popping the baby and I used to ask them, did you get your green signal from your doctor? Show me the six week checkup. I said, okay, now just take it easy. Don't worry. Let's go. Yes. So first I had to correct myself. I really feel the fitness professionals should explore getting themselves certified.
Jen (43:54.013)
Let's go!
Sucheta Pal (44:07.122)
I know you have an amazing program, which I would love to hear about. And that would make a huge difference, not just to their immediate mom clients. So they know when a mom comes back to them or a mom is mom has a five year old or a 15 year old. They can make a huge difference to all their mom clients. And you know, the funny part is Jen.
that what I've learned in my pre -pocital certification, I wish I knew at 25 also, when I didn't have plans for pregnancy. Today in my workshops, I literally call in my students who are 25, 17, I had a 17 year old, and she found so much value from that information because she could protect her fertility for health. She could protect her internal reproductive organs for her.
Jen (44:57.789)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (45:02.063)
fitness, she could work on her power and energy in her workouts, thanks to the knowledge and techniques that I had taught in those workshops or you teach, right? So I really feel that trainers can create a huge difference for the women clients, just not their mom clients, by educating themselves in the pre postnatal space, huge difference.
Jen (45:31.229)
Absolutely. And I think it's, you know, we have a lot of trainers learn about specifically hypertonic pelvic floor in their young clients, young female clients that have recurring UTIs and, you know, painful sex and all that kind of thing. And if they're then educating them around their pelvic floor, then hopefully when we get to birth or pregnancy and then birth, we're going to, I don't know, over time, I kind of dream that we'll have less
Sucheta Pal (45:39.247)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (46:01.437)
birth trauma or less pelvic floor assisted deliveries or emergency C -sections because our young women will be educated in their pelvic floor exactly like you're saying and their fertility and keeping themselves fit and healthy.
Sucheta Pal (46:10.646)
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I feel that men should be part of that conversation. As I said, you know, if you have a mother or you're going to marry someone who's going to become a mother, it is your equal responsibility. And you can create as men so much of a difference in this conversation.
Jen (46:24.701)
Me too.
Jen (46:33.309)
Hmm.
Sucheta Pal (46:39.469)
When it comes to women's health, it just cannot be women talking about our rights in health. Men have to step up.
Jen (46:48.605)
No. Well there's too many men that are the gatekeepers to women's health, right?
Sucheta Pal (46:53.805)
Yes.
Jen (46:55.677)
And we need allies. We need the men that will stand with us and talk. And it's the open conversation that I think you were talking about before in what you like to create in your communities. It's starting conversations, but not conversations then that are only for women or only done in women's spaces. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (46:58.381)
We need allies. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (47:08.845)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (47:15.533)
Mm hmm. Right. It has to be somewhere where, like I was talking about that workshop and include them in a fun way, you know, educate them and tell them, hey, it's going to help you. So I literally, Jen, when I do my workshops in India, I don't call it the diastasis, like the healing workshop. I call it 10x your energy in motherhood.
Jen (47:41.053)
Nice.
Sucheta Pal (47:42.699)
You know, because ultimately I'm going to come to that topic of diastasis, recti, because my sister who has a 19 year old today also may not know about it. But when I tell, and she's a huge corporate woman, she's a top boss woman, but what does she crave for? That when she goes to work, she has that energy level, like what she had when she was 25, which she does, but.
Jen (47:47.677)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (48:11.21)
I feel when I sell a workshop which says 10x your energy in motherhood, I hit a nerve which is helping them in their real life and then they get attracted to that topic and when they come, I can then educate them about what's really going on in their bodies and why your energy levels are low. It's a lot to do with how your body is today changed after motherhood.
Jen (48:26.205)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (48:39.978)
And you can still improve it even if you have a 19 year old and you can still using these techniques get to that 10x energy. And I think this is what we have to change sometimes country wise, culture wise. And I've learned it the hard way. I'm a hardcore educator. Like, you know, you tell me, give me a, give me a lecture and I'll go, but I have, I struggle on social media. I tell you, Jen, like what?
Jen (48:54.877)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (49:08.81)
Who should I put on this reel?
Jen (49:10.237)
your social media is fantastic. So you might say you struggle, but you're doing it really well.
Sucheta Pal (49:18.122)
It's tough. I think as educators we relate to each other. It's tough.
Jen (49:22.397)
Also, we're not 25 year olds doing social media hooks either. It's like we're learning the stuff that they, it makes me feel really, really old when I put it like that, but it's the stuff that you're going, okay, that's how you do it. And you put that spin on it because it is fun. It is fun. And I think helping women to hear what you really need to say sometimes it is beneficial if it's not delivered in a very, you know,
Sucheta Pal (49:29.29)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (49:35.53)
Yeah, but it's fun. It's fun.
Sucheta Pal (49:49.96)
Hmm. Yeah, technical way. Yes. Yeah. As long as it solves their problem, I think we've won the battle.
Jen (49:51.037)
technical or bland kind of way. Yeah.
Jen (50:00.125)
Yeah, and you know, solves their problem and then they go talk to somebody else and before you know it, there's that beautiful ripple effect that is happening out there. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (50:09.704)
I really hope so. It becomes a conversation which is common.
Jen (50:14.525)
Mm. Mm.
Sucheta Pal (50:16.232)
You're doing a fantastic job, Jen. Amazing. Amazing.
Jen (50:18.461)
Thank you. I'm incredibly, I appreciate that feedback. And I'm going to speak really honestly that I'm incredibly frustrated at the moment, potentially because I've been doing what I've been doing for the past 15 years. And I just get really like, you can see as a, as a, when you zoom out, it's like, I know the real quick fixes that the government has the power to do. And I know the real quick fixes that the big box gyms.
Sucheta Pal (50:44.136)
Hmm.
Jen (50:47.549)
have the power to do, but whether they can be bothered or whether it's financially viable or even impactful, because when you talk to big box gyms, the conversation is, well, the moms are coming anyway. Why would I bother giving them the right pre -exercise screening? Why would I bother matching them with a personal trainer that has the right education? Because they come anyway. And it's really hard to get that cut through. And I hope, I hope that you do it a lot faster in India.
Sucheta Pal (50:52.488)
viable.
Sucheta Pal (51:09.864)
Mmm.
Jen (51:17.693)
then I feel like it's moving in Australia.
Sucheta Pal (51:21.063)
and then we call you to India.
Jen (51:23.293)
I'm on the next plane right now. Bring me over.
Sucheta Pal (51:28.59)
No, I really hope so. It's going to take some time here to then, but I really hope it's going to at least change a few lives. And if we can, I think over here, it's a lot everywhere. It's a lot to do with society and social media. The two S's. The society has made fitness only in terms of what you look like when fitness was never about that.
Jen (51:33.885)
Yeah.
Jen (51:38.269)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (51:56.294)
And social media is always about before and after pictures. So in my program, I never show before and after pictures because that's not what I'm trying to do. So I may get less. So, you know, it's not that, you know, I'm getting hundreds of registrations every month. There'll be a few, but they will be the ones who understand what I'm trying to talk about. And that's good enough for me because it's important we change the narrative. It's tough on you and me because we are going off beat.
Jen (52:17.405)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (52:24.774)
We are changing, we're trying to change the narrative. It's not flashy, it's not glamorous, but we are still trying to keep up with society and social media. We're trying to be smart to work around it. So it's for you 15 years, for me it's been, I think, four years and I feel you so much. But I do, I love the fact that you said that, like the big box gyms and...
Yeah, I feel you that they would not be open about it, but what if we create, you know, something that would like, you know, for me, literally, I was thinking of it's just something that's in my head. You know, a pregnancy dance fitness program, which has these elements of, you know, your core and pelvic floor, because dance is huge in India.
Jen (53:05.597)
I'm excited.
Sucheta Pal (53:18.979)
and it's glamorous and it's fun and for the gym it would be one more fitness format to offer and they could get in the mums. But then resources, right? The time, the energy is going to be yours alone. The gym is not going to come and invest in me today. So I have to put in that effort and then you start thinking, will it work? Will it not work? Is it worth my time, money, effort?
Jen (53:19.037)
Mm.
Jen (53:41.885)
Well for you, like I mean, is there Zumba for moms? Like there's a huge opportunity. Would they do that?
Sucheta Pal (53:45.251)
No, no. So Zumba is, you know, as you know, it's a company based in Miami. So they have a lot of different formats like Zumba Goal for active older adults or beginners, which I feel that program is great for moms. But no, there's nothing specific for mothers. And I don't think so right now there's any plan for that as much as I.
Jen (53:51.005)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jen (54:01.053)
Yeah.
Jen (54:06.013)
Yeah, I often thought like where's Les Mills is class for moms, which do you have Les Mills and no, they don't. It's like I've always thought there's an opportunity there for Les Mills to put pregnancy or postpartum group fitness into gyms. But again, like this. Yeah. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (54:12.287)
they have?
Sucheta Pal (54:22.787)
We have less meals, we have everything, but no, yeah, there's something in less meals, right? Yeah.
Jen (54:30.173)
It's even as simple as I was thinking about a either safe return to exercise or mom safe kind of gym policy. And what does that mean? That means that we make sure every mom has a specific postpartum screening when they come through the doors of the gym. It means that we commit to every mom that is given introduced to a personal trainer in our facility that that trainer has the right qualifications to actually work with her. And the third one would be as simple as we
actively give out referrals to pelvic health physios. And imagine if every gym just did that. It would be so and this is what I mean about it's so so simple. Yet, you knock on the door, people listen to you. And then they go, it's a bit too hard. Or you can do that if you'll do it for free. That's the other one I get. So let's do.
Sucheta Pal (55:03.969)
Yeah, love that.
Sucheta Pal (55:17.917)
Yeah, yeah, I don't think so. People realize how hard it is for us. Like we are doing it out of our passion. But yeah, we have to pay our bills.
Jen (55:28.797)
Mmm. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Are there a lot of exercise professionals do you think in India that are interested in postpartum exercise?
Sucheta Pal (55:42.785)
I think I see some interest that is happening, but there has to be a lot of awareness right now. So there's not much awareness that there is something called postpartum fitness. Like when I talk to people and moms who are in the fitness, like we have fitness enthusiasts or they are really passionate about their personal fitness, they never heard of something called postpartum fitness. All they know is six weeks checkup,
Jen (55:56.253)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (56:11.36)
I need to go and maybe with my personal trainer go and do some core work, which core work is, you know, crunches and planks, sit -ups. There is of course Pilates, which is very famous in India. We have some amazing trainers and I feel at least that's there because that really helps women if your trainer is certified to help you.
Jen (56:18.301)
Yep.
Jen (56:24.445)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (56:35.037)
Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (56:40.255)
in the postpartum fitness arena, I think there is some help at least there. But otherwise, yeah, there's very less awareness about postpartum fitness.
Jen (56:44.893)
Yeah.
Yeah. And other because I know that you said you did all your training overseas. Are there any local postpartum education for trainers? Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (56:53.727)
There is. There is. Yeah, there used to be one from Mumbai, I think. So there are a few and they do it word of mouth. I don't see much of marketing happening on that front. And there are some that are coming up now and they are good.
Jen (57:02.077)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (57:12.605)
Yep, fantastic. Susheta, I'm aware of the time. Tell me what is, what are you excited about moving forward? What's coming up for you?
Sucheta Pal (57:23.775)
I think something that you are doing Jen, and I know that you have your own pre -postnatal certification, you're doing a fantastic job. I would love to know more about that, absolutely. But that's something which excites me that I've always trained trainers. And if I can create a difference to society at large by creating educators like me, that would be so fulfilling.
Jen (57:39.037)
Mm.
Sucheta Pal (57:53.565)
And I think that way, and I feel you Jen, like I know what you're trying to do. You know, you're trying to let the legacy live on.
Sucheta Pal (58:04.316)
create generational change, right? Like it has to be changed. You're not, Jen, what you're doing, I think is commendable where you're training the trainers, where you're not going to maybe see a huge difference today. I know you've been doing for 15 years and I know you're creating a lot of difference, but your trainers, the way that they are gonna change the world is going to be incredible. And I already see it like in your content and the way that you are.
Jen (58:23.037)
Hmm.
Sucheta Pal (58:33.468)
you know, helping out, just not mothers, but trainers who deal with mothers and making sure that they are accountable. It's just not leaving them, right? I love that about you that you're training them, but you're also making sure that they are accountable because this is a huge thing to do. You know, I can get money for two days. I train them XYZ, but what that, what after that? How do we support our trainers so that they can support?
women further in their journeys. I think that's incredible. So that's been in my head for the last three years.
Jen (59:05.789)
I can't wait to watch that come to life. That's really exciting. Done.
Sucheta Pal (59:08.188)
You're going to be my mentor for that. But please, I mean, tell me what are the challenges that you face and what are your wins when it came to train the trainers?
Jen (59:19.517)
No.
That's a really great question. I think some of the challenges is even getting trainers to understand why they need to know more. And also more recently getting trainers to understand that the certificate that they did 10 years ago potentially doesn't have the same standing or you know what, what they learnt was great. And we've come a long way.
Sucheta Pal (59:41.115)
Hehehe.
Mm -hmm.
Jen (59:49.373)
since then and learning doesn't stop. And I think that's, you know, that's what MUMsafe is about is you've done your two day certificate, you've done your initial certificate, now let's support you ongoing so that you do research updates and you do continued education. But I think it's every step of the way. So even from, you know, trainers leave their initial certifications with absolutely no awareness that they need more education to train MUMs. So they're...
unconscious and competent in that initial certificate stage. And then they'll stumble upon whether it's a master class or some kind of education and they'll learn that they need to learn more. And then they've got to choose where to go and what to do and choosing a course that's credible and that's not, you know, a two hour course that you then think you've ticked the box. So there's different layers at different steps of the journey. My dog's barking in the background.
Sucheta Pal (01:00:30.618)
Right.
Sucheta Pal (01:00:45.594)
There is, I know, I love that he's agreeing to it.
Jen (01:00:48.061)
The school bus is because she does this every night. The school bus goes past and she barks at it every single night and it still goes past every single night. She's like, why hasn't it stopped yet? Sorry. Yeah.
Sucheta Pal (01:00:54.17)
Hahaha.
Sucheta Pal (01:00:59.017)
No, I so feel you because over the last decade, I think I've done 10 certifications and just not Zoom, but I think a lot of people don't know that about me. I've done every certification and I'm so attracted towards it. I think half of my income goes into just learning and bankrupt.
but I can't stop myself because there is so much to know. And I feel as educators, we want to give back. We want to teach that all. And just not us. Like I respect you for this, Jen, that you are talking to so many other women across the world. And I'm sure this is going to reach your trainers. And you're not just saying, hey, I'm the best and I know everything.
You are not only bringing your knowledge of so many years to them and also getting giving the knowledge of so many others that you feel can add value and that is the essence of true leadership. I always feel that it's just not being an educator Jen. I think you're a true leader who wants to create true change and kudos for that. I have immense respect, immense respect.
Jen (01:02:13.149)
Thank you. I appreciate that very, very much. I think it's part of the, the more that you learn, the less that you know, that you know, right? And there are so many, I don't have enough time to go and learn all the things that I feel like we need to know. So we have to collaborate and we have to work together in order to bring all of the expertise to the trainers that we want to support. So.
Sucheta Pal (01:02:24.536)
Mm -hmm.
Sucheta Pal (01:02:41.976)
I can't wait to have you on my podcast.
Jen (01:02:42.749)
Yeah, I can't wait either. All right, I'm going to ask one one last question for you. What legacy would you like to leave?
Not a tricky one at all.
Sucheta Pal (01:02:57.014)
Not at all. Of course, you know, I've never, never wanted my son to be my legacy. You know, I think he's going to be on his own, create his own world. For me, my legacy would absolutely, I would love that the legacy that I leave and people remember me by, and even if they don't know who did it, but eventually after generations, women.
are doing what they love with ease. They are thriving in their full potential. They're not letting their body identity stop them from doing what they love. I think that is the legacy that I am trying to leave through movement and mindset. That's what I would love to create as a legacy.
Jen (01:03:51.005)
What a beautiful way to wrap up. I absolutely love that. And I've, it was amazing. But that's like, you know, it's you and body. You know, we hardly know each other, but I feel like I've known you for a long time. But then I look at your social media and then we chat today and it's you embody what you're doing and to be able to speak in that way. And that comes out in every single thing that you do. So.
Sucheta Pal (01:03:55.541)
That was deep. I don't know from where it came.
Sucheta Pal (01:04:07.157)
Yes.
Sucheta Pal (01:04:17.493)
Thank you so much.
Jen (01:04:17.757)
Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for spending time from the other side of the world. And you know what's ridiculous is we've had less internet issues from Australia to India than I have sometimes from Australia to the next suburb.
Sucheta Pal (01:04:31.156)
I am telling you, I definitely feel connected to Jen, whether it's with the good internet connection or otherwise. No, but it's been a pleasure. It's an honor to be able to share my life learnings in small or big ways. And I really hope it will make a difference to, as I always say, at least one woman. I think my job is done.
Jen (01:04:53.053)
Beautiful. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day ahead and I'm sure that we will chat very soon. Thank you.
Sucheta Pal (01:04:59.603)
Bye bye.
