Jen (00:01.07)
Kate, welcome to the Mumsafe Movement podcast. How are you going?
Kate (00:05.905)
I'm doing very well, thanks. Thank you for having me. Yeah, me too.
Jen (00:08.556)
I'm very excited that you're here. Cool. I know you said you're a bit nervous. I mess things up all the time. I stuff up my words. There's nothing that you can possibly do wrong in this conversation. And we're just gonna have fun.
Kate (00:23.783)
Yeah, sounds great.
Jen (00:26.072)
Cool, cool, cool. Okay, let us kick off with the way we always kick off this podcast with a word to share how you're showing up today. And then we'll go into a win and something that you're working on at the moment.
Kate (00:40.039)
Okay, well I've kind of got three words for today. It's nervous, excited and grateful. They're like, it's all rolled up into one big field for me today. My win is we're now operating out of our new studio and that's going quite smoothly now. So I've ironed out a few kinks along the way. And, what was my other one?
Jen (01:06.178)
something that you're working
Kate (01:06.259)
Working on, working on, well we have a new online program that we'll be launching hopefully in the next couple of months. So just been squirreling away at
Jen (01:21.826)
Yeah, fantastic. Is that specifically for moms or for all your clients or? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kate (01:25.179)
Yes, yes definitely. So trying to give more mums access to what we're offering face -to -face by creating a variation online. So just increasing our reach I guess.
Jen (01:31.682)
Hmm.
Jen (01:39.884)
I love it. love it. And you mentioned your new space. I'm very excited. I know last time we saw each other, you were just like, what do I do? Do I do this? Like you've been in, in your studio. How long had you been in your studio for?
Kate (01:52.563)
My last studio, we were there for three years. We expanded into a bigger space. We had more staff working and then it just wasn't the right place and fit moving forward. Like we've kind of downsized and made things a bit more intimate. People really want to be working with me, so they're getting that. Yeah, so it's fantastic. Like it didn't all go to plan.
Jen (01:56.611)
Mm -hmm.
Kate (02:20.207)
but we still have really close relationships with our allied health partners. And I would even say they're probably nearly stronger from the experiences we've now had together and shared. And yeah, now got almost like a little bit more flexible, like local reach as well, because we can pivot and move a little bit more throughout the community when we're offering some of our programs.
Jen (02:45.132)
Yeah, fantastic. Kate, we're recording this podcast ahead of Birth Trauma Awareness Week. And you are both one of our Mumsafe trainers and you're a mum and you've experienced birth trauma. We'll put it out there. Do you wanna, before we go into the birth trauma side of things, do you want to share just a little bit about you and I guess where you're located, what your business is and what you do and then we'll backtrack and go through.
the journey of birth and all the rest of
Kate (03:17.683)
Okay, well, I've been working in the fitness industry for over 15 years now. I started very much working closely with physios, helping kind of guide their clients into the gym space. So working, you you work with a physio, you get given your exercises, you kind of get clearance and then you're like, well, what do I do when I go to a gym? That was what I was doing.
And that progressed to noticing, you know, various patterns throughout the gym and particularly with mum clients, that they were all having really similar issues and they weren't willing to talk about it. They weren't really high on their own priority list. And then obviously that led me to doing more research and spending more time kind of, I guess, fine tuning where I wanted to be and led me to Mum Safe.
Kate (04:20.194)
which I think I completed that when I was 36 weeks pregnant. So I was, I remember the last session, I was kind of like quite round. Yeah, I mean, it could have even been 38 weeks, like it was very late because we had to do it because of COVID. It was split into two sessions. So I'd done my first one and I was doing the second session and it was either 36 or 38 weeks.
Jen (04:29.378)
Remember that now, I completely forgot about that.
Kate (04:47.611)
So I was actually experiencing your course heavily pregnant, which was amazing. It just gave it all a different perspective. Yeah, it was good. I learnt from a different perspective. So obviously as someone who's been in the industry for such a long time, you can get honed into interpreting information in a certain way, I guess. And then being in
Jen (04:56.274)
How was that? you remember? Yeah.
Kate (05:17.959)
different body, this body that is going through so much change and then what that makes you feel. Also the world was kind of crumbling a little bit with COVID. It was just a really different experience, kind of either being able to relate directly to some of the things we talked about because I was actually experiencing them or being able to imagine what that would feel like when you are heavily pregnant.
It just gave a much more in -depth perspective.
Jen (05:51.894)
Do you feel like it helped the birth process at all, like learning that or, cause sometimes we get this, there's a mixed feeling, like whenever there's pregnant people who do safe return to exercise, and I say this with a lot of love, it's like, you learn all this stuff that you're in the dark about and you're empowered because you've got more education, but does that empowerment lead to you being more apprehensive cause you didn't have it earlier or is it a good thing? And it's different for everybody, I think.
Kate (06:19.091)
I I'd had a lot of education from a lot of different sides of the spectrum from very early on in my pregnancy. I had some concerns with, I'd had a snowboarding accident two years prior that took over 18 months to settle down. So I was conscious that that could possibly impact the birth. And then my mom had two caesareans.
She was basically, her babies went into distress or my brother went into distress and they're like, she's very, very petite in her build. And they're like, this is just not something that's right for you. So she wasn't really given the option. And she had two different types of seasons. She had the old school zipper and then the lower. Yeah, so she's actually got an upside down T. So I had, I guess, genetic concert.
genetic concerns going in and so I got, I basically followed the congenitality of care model and found a private midwife to kind of guide me throughout that I felt super comfortable with. So she provided me with heaps of education. On top of that, my cousin has been a midwife for probably at least 30 years and she has worked in remote Aboriginal communities
very large scale hospitals. I was lucky I had not only my fitness and health background and the physios that I already worked with, but I had those other professionals around me to support as
Jen (07:56.527)
Yeah, cool. Okay. Did you work with moms before you did, before you had your own baby? Or you more moved into that area
Kate (08:05.731)
I but not in the same capacity. I would work with mums that I already had a pretty long standing history with. So often I'd be training women as they progress through their life. They would fall pregnant, have babies and I would be supporting them through that. And then it would always seem to happen in waves and I'd have five or six mums. all having babies around the same time. So then we'd do that mums and bums fitness and I'd kind of guide them through till they
back in the mainstream, of able to integrate in our other classes. But now it's very outwardly marketed as that is who I'm directing myself at. And part of that is I just didn't feel like I had a right of place to have so much commentary on it without the experience. And that isn't a correct way to think about
it ate a little bit of my soul. So I wasn't going to stand there and be really hammering this information, I guess, even though I knew it to be true and correct. Yeah, so I guess that's I like a bit of conviction to what I'm saying.
Jen (09:18.54)
Yeah, that's an interesting one, isn't it? And we get the people all the time. It's like, can I train mums if I'm not a mum? And I was thinking about it the other day and it's, you definitely have a different perspective once you're a mum and you have a different level of empathy for things that mums go through in pregnancy, birth and then postpartum. But it's, I always bring it back to, cause there's some excellent trainers out there that are not mums and they work with mums and it's...
even me or you as a mom, we only have our experience, right? And it can often flip to the other side for some people in that they get so heavily blinkered by their own experience that they can't remove that to then give neutral guidance to other people who are going through the same process. So it can go totally either way. Yeah.
Kate (10:09.035)
100%. Yeah, definitely. And, and it was definitely a misguided, I guess, perception. But it was something I couldn't shake. So I didn't want to stand in that space. Like I said, the women I was working with, like some of my clients have been with me for 14 of those 15 years, like I know them, I knew their body as good as anyone else could, aside from them. And then seeing them through
their full exercise injury history. So it could kind of preempt like knowing if they had any specific history that was going to play a part in their pregnancy.
Jen (10:47.65)
Yeah, yeah, cool. Kate, let's turn the conversation to birth trauma. People are listening to this in Birth Trauma Awareness Week. I know that before we got on the call, you wanted to make it really clear that when we have this conversation, it's your experience of birth trauma, not experience of the birth of your little human. Do you want to elaborate on that just so that it's out in the world?
Kate (10:55.624)
Mm
Kate (11:15.763)
Yeah, so I like any parent, I guess. I view the birth of my daughter as pretty much the making of me. Like it was the most brilliant experience, probably less common. I actually really enjoyed labor as well. Like it was hard, but I enjoyed it. I just would hate
for my story to ever be told in a way that my daughter goes, I caused this or I was the catalyst to this. And I don't think that was the case at all. It's very much based in where the medical system is today, how we listen to mums both pre, postnatal, like it's just a flow on effect of all those things and they all collided.
on that day for me. So it's very much my story, I guess. I like to own it as my story and my experience. that, yeah, like rocked my world and the best thing that has ever happened to me and wouldn't take it back in an instant with everything that has progressed over the last few years.
Jen (12:35.743)
Yeah, I think that's really important. And I really respected when you said like, I want to want to have this conversation from that perspective, I think, also to offer to other moms that might go, you know what, the birth of my child was not a beautiful thing. And I can't relate to it in that way. There's still the differentiation if it's helpful for people of
the child coming into the world or the child as an entity versus the birth as an experience. And I think that offering that separation for those women who can't separate it again in the way that you're able to and you view it to separate it. And hopefully that could be helpful for anybody out there.
Kate (13:21.383)
Yeah, and it's a personal experience. Everyone will interpret that differently and that's okay. And I think that's the thing a lot of people go into like want to have a conversation and they want to hear about every terrible bit of it. And I guess I'm just, although there was lots of terrible bits, I'm not wired to just only focus on that. I want to hold onto the good bits that happened.
because they're the bits that get you through on those shitty days.
Jen (13:53.166)
Yeah, Kate, let's take us back then to October 2020 when Astrid was born and you can start to share some of your journey.
Kate (14:05.543)
Okay, I went into labor and didn't really tell my husband for a few hours. I like, I've got to make sure this is on. I spent the last two days hiking up into the bush behind our house, like going, okay, I'm ready for this. we're encouraging the process, lots of steep hill climbs and that sort of thing.
Jen (14:17.1)
Make sure it's real.
Kate (14:34.643)
I labored at home for 24 hours before heading into the hospital. I got a bit nervous before we went into the hospital and I called the midwife that had been working with us. And I was like, just, feel like it's stalling. I'm not getting anywhere. And in the process of that conversation, I couldn't sleep at all when I was in labor. I think it was a combination of that nervous, vibe that I've kind of got going today.
that yeah, I was like, I feel like I should be progressing more or my contractions should be getting closer. And I shifted around, I was in the bath when I called her and then she was clearly, you know, timing my contractions and she's like, yeah, I think it's time for you to go. Like they're a lot closer than what you realize. I think the bath is numb, like settling things down a little bit and I'd shifted and it was
about every three minutes. And that had kind of been the plan to get labored at that point. We live about 20 minutes away from the hospital, based in a rural area, so a rural hospital. And so we put the TENS machine on for the trip, which was part of the plan from the Women's Health Physio as well, and headed to the hospital. We parked out the front, walked in. I would have had like six or seven contractions just walking in.
And I guess from the moment I got in there, it was very different to what I anticipated. The midwife said often they'll just let you kind of settle into the room. Don't be alarmed if they don't come and check on you straight away. They want you to get comfortable in the space. And it was like straight in, let's check you. And I had actually never had throughout my whole pregnancy an internal exam. There hadn't been any call for it.
So that was probably quite confronting straight off and she's like, honey, you got ages. She goes, you're only one centimeter. And in that, I was kind of like, my God. But we were given the option we could go home or we could stay and we'd been told that, you know, things can regress a bit with the travel. So like, we'll stay, this is first baby, we'll stay close.
Kate (17:00.499)
I continued to labor in the hospital. was probably for a good... The time continuum is a bit blurry, we were probably a good six hours before we ended up going down the caesarean train. I'd had contractions three in 10. So that was relatively frequent. And they were noting that my contractions were really long.
over a minute each contraction. So it was intense, but the whole time I was just super in awe of what my body was doing. Like it was really cool. I guess from that health professional's side of things, I was aware of how muscles were contracting and I was like, wow, how cool is this to experience? I know, I told you.
Jen (17:52.984)
can find that in that, like it's great. I love it, I love it.
Kate (17:58.035)
But I did start to get to, like I was pretty, I would have said pretty calm the whole time, but I was getting tired. So in the end, like the total time I was in labor was 48 hours. And that last kind of, I'd say two hours, it really started to wear on me. And like I said, the contractions were over a minute. They came in like a double wave. So I found that quite intense.
and they told me that we're gonna, you know, this has gone on for a bit now, we're gonna get an obstetrician in, because when they checked me again, I was three centimeters. So I just wasn't dilating. And kind of for me, that's, it wasn't the decision to get an obstetrician in, it was the moment that obstetrician came in and the way they spoke to me that started to change everything.
Being a rural hospital, there was only one kind of permanent obstetrician in the area and he didn't work weekends or school holidays. I didn't realize that my due date, not having a child, I didn't realize my due date was in school holidays. So even though I'd had a checkup with him, no one had ever said that to me. So I didn't realize that he was never actually going to be
And this local obstetrician walks in, introduces herself, I was mid contraction. And then I kind of caught up to what she saying. I'm like, hold on, who are you? And she was immediately offended and just took it really poorly. And she's like, well, I'm the obstetrician on duty. So if you want to have this baby, it's me. And just that jarring, I don't know if you want to say vibe or energy or attitude
you you actually chose to talk to me mid contraction, you could have waited. I wasn't necessarily going to register all the information. Yeah, so basically, they gave me the option of having an epidural. And I'd have basically an hour or two to deliver the baby. That was all they were willing to give me or it'd be an emergency
Kate (20:20.837)
or I could have an emergency caesarean then. No one was in distress. It would just, because that's what they class it as, because it isn't planned. So to try and avoid that cascade of intervention, I went, let's go for the caesarean. No one is distressed. Let's keep this calm. Let's do this. I was a bit devastated when I realized it had taken an hour to get a team together. I guess I was like, yay, caesarean, this is going to end soon.
And I just remember going, how long is this gonna take now? But it's a area, like they've got to call a team in and that. So I should note that I'm a needle -phobe. I'm not great with needles, but had tolerated, you I can go in and get a needle if I need it. But one thing I'd always wanted to avoid was a needle in the spine. So there was a significant moment when I had to have that spinal block.
But I was lucky the midwife was just gorgeous. Like she just, I begged her to let my husband come in, because we'd planned that if I did have to that he would be there. But I didn't know that at the time that that wasn't gonna be medically allowed. For good reason, I understand. So the beautiful midwife just let me just sob into her shoulder like, you know, the same way a three year old.
Jen (21:19.998)
relate to that massively I would have freaked out. Yep.
Kate (21:46.907)
Sobs when they have a really, you know, a really bad gut sort of thing. And that kind of all worked really first attempt successful, checked, everything was numb and they started opening me up. They were really good at explaining what was going to happen throughout the Caesar down to the noises I was going to hear and when and how I'd feel pressure and how that would be timed.
So they were really great in that perspective. There was a note where I remember the anesthetist going, you know, that doesn't seem normal. And I'd gotten really pale and clammy and unwell. And what I later learned is the method used during my caesarean was she actually, or the obstetrician at the time actually, exteriorized my uterus.
there's two methods of getting the baby out of the uterus. One is the uterus stays in and the other is it's actually pulled out and they clear the uterus out of the placenta. It's great for reducing risk of infection from retained placenta or any placenta left in there. But in my case, that is where things went a bit belly up, but we didn't know that yet. So when the uterus was put back into my abdomen, they, or what
has been suggested by a number of obstetricians is that it was scraped down one of the implements and that caused a bleed. But that wasn't known at the time so everything got stitched back up. They kind of sorted my baby out, brought her over to me. I got some beautiful little snuggles in there and then they were kind of finishing up and they're like okay
we're going to take you into recovery. Your baby's going to go on the ward with your husband and in 20 minutes you'll be up with them. And so I go into recovery and I never actually left recovery. So I never got to go up onto the wards. I basically started crashing and the team had kind of, I guess some of them had finished their shift. They'd been on shift for too long, had to go home.
Kate (24:12.004)
And they had to call another team in to kind of or another anesthetist to come in at that point.
And I feel like that was lucky for me because I think the story would have been very different if that change of shift and this anaesthetist that came on advocated for me at every turn. I didn't like him much at the time because he wouldn't let me drink water or those simple things, but he knew I was going back into theater. Like he knew this was very wrong. I wasn't very well. So basically they couldn't stabilize my heart rate. My blood pressure was bottoming out.
Jen (24:42.157)
Mm.
Kate (24:52.587)
and he called the obstetrician back in and she basically fought the whole time that I wasn't bleeding, know, threw blankets back and pressed into my stomach. And I'm telling you, that's not a uterus that's bleeding. So typically like when a bleed is spoken of, they think the uterus fills with blood and then it drains obviously out the vagina and there's evidence.
but they nicked the exterior posterior wall of my uterus. So I was bleeding into my abdomen. So I got very ill, lost a lot of blood. And this toing and froing, like the anesthetist ended up having to put her in a position where her hand was kind of forced to take me back into theater. I was wheeled into theater, put on the table, and then another kind of disagreement between the two started.
I got taken off the table. Conscious during this. So all of this is my actual recollection. So after debriefing, there is a few hours that are quite spaced out and I don't have any recollection, but they were very shocked at how much conversation I recalled from those several hours. Yeah, so,
Jen (25:49.944)
Were you conscious during this?
Kate (26:18.331)
got wheeled out again and they decided to take me for a CT scan to confirm I was bleeding before they'd operate. And CT scared, this anesthetist did not leave the end of my bed basically. He was watching me like a hawk going, she's bleeding, she's bleeding, like mom's listening, need to do something. And he went with me to the CT, he came back with me and then the results came back
bleeding straight in and they knocked me out with gas this time which I was I think I was a bit resistant to like I was a bit done with everything going on around me and I remember the mask just sucking onto my face and going I can't breathe and I kept saying that and then in the end I went well fuck it just do it sorry but that was my exact words I was just just do it like I'm done I'm done
just do whatever you need to do now. The next bit probably gets more traumatic for my husband and my family. They couldn't stabilize me. They gave me, they were rapidly running out of blood to give me in such a small rural hospital. So I got airlifted to Canberra hospital, which I woke up, I don't know how many.
hours later in ICU and I had no idea where I was, where my things were, where my baby was. I had no phone, had no shoes, like I just had nothing, it was me. And I remember when I woke up I asked, and this is probably the bit that will always choke me up, I asked for where's my baby and they said I'm sorry she's not here. And I interpreted that as something had happened to her and
Jen (28:14.192)
my God.
Kate (28:15.815)
I got quite distressed and it took them like a minute or two to go, no, no, no, no, no. You were in Canberra, she's back in the other hospital. So that, like I got goosebumps, that still.
Jen (28:29.422)
But that's just given me goosebumps, not let alone like that. Yeah. It could have been she's okay. She's just not here.
Kate (28:34.331)
Yeah,
Kate (28:38.855)
Yeah, but it was just, and it just panic, I guess, from that point, let alone feeling very average and very drugged up, I guess.
Jen (28:39.522)
Yep, yep.
Kate (28:53.553)
And then they said, do you want to call someone? And I couldn't remember any phone numbers. could only remember my childhood house phone number, my studio number. So I left a message on my studio phone for someone to call me back. And in the end, I remembered my dad's home phone number, which had only recently been reconnected after the bushfires. And I got it him and he was kind of in shock because he'd been talking to my husband.
It's like my husband hadn't heard yet that I'd woken up. But every time, even though he was my emergency contact, they tried to call him for me. He was on the phone, organizing everything so they could never get through to him. So it was very sweet. My dad, my thing was, I don't know how I'm going to feed a baby. Like she's going to be so hungry. And my dad rides a motorcycle and goes, I'm just going to put the bags on the
and I'm coming up, it's okay. I'll come up, you get them to do what they need to do for you and I'll bring it down to her. So that was really, really sweet. You know, that's a beautiful little daddy to the rescue moment, I guess, even as an adult. Yeah, so I was in ICU the kind of majority of that day in Canberra and it wasn't until that afternoon
Jen (29:55.96)
What a legend. Yep. Yep.
Kate (30:18.259)
that they managed to get my, they did an unofficial transfer of my daughter to get her to me, which was amazing. for a rural hospital that is that short staffed and under the pump, they felt like that circumstance couldn't have gone much worse and they just needed to get that baby to me. They gave my husband the option to drive her up and he was sleep deprived, feeling very stressed.
about he didn't know what to do with the baby and how the trip would go and all that, a couple of hours. And so he was given the option, he could take her or they could take her because they had a midwife going up to collect a couple of babies and bring them back down. So it was an unofficial transfer, she didn't go do what she was supposed to do when she first got there. She just came straight up to ICU, brought her to me and
Jen (30:52.236)
Yeah, fair enough.
Kate (31:17.179)
let me spend some time with her before she was then booked into NICU and that was not because she was sick but just so she was registered within the hospital so this don't happen to me they had a record of her. My husband got up there later that afternoon
And then it was nine days in Canberra of kind of, I guess, ongoing sort of complications. ended up with a paralytic ileus, which is stunned bowels and started to go septic. The pain management of that and the, everything that was going on was a bit hit and miss. They tried to have me on oral pain relief and I kept vomiting. So eventually they like, we're just going
And then I kind of started, everything kind of gets a bit clearer from that point. So that first kind of probably three days is a bit hazy. It's hard like laying in a bed and hearing your baby cry, but not being able to get up, not being able to do anything about it. So I'm lucky I've got incredible support in my husband. Some people wouldn't have that, which would be make it all the more traumatic. Yeah, so.
Yeah, nine days in Canberra. I lost 12 kilos in that nine days. From Yeah, I was unwell. I think by the end, but by the time I was discharged, I'd had like seven units of blood and iron infusion, potassium
special injections of antibiotics and different things. Like I remember a whole team of doctors running into my room one day and do daily blood tests. And one of them had come back, just levels were just terrible. And they've all come running in and I'm standing up like changing a nappy and they're like, what are you doing? Like I need, I want to change a nappy. They're like, you need to be bad. Like you're not okay.
Kate (33:34.371)
The levels were made worse by the drip I'd just been put on, but yeah, it was a very average few days. And then the trip home was long and rough.
Jen (33:50.424)
I can imagine, I can imagine. you, Kate, I mean, know you've, mean, well, thank you. I mean, you're here to share, right? But thank you for sharing so openly. And I know that this story doesn't end there. But when you, do you feel like the experience did affect how you were able to bond with Astrid? And I know that that's a really shit question, but when she was brought to you, do you feel like you kind
Kate (34:14.247)
Not valid.
Jen (34:17.186)
picked up where you left off or didn't even get to start or do feel like it was harder?
Kate (34:23.155)
it crippled me for the first few months. Like she'd get upset and like any new mom, like you don't have all the answers. Like it's your first time doing it. So you gotta work out that little person and how they respond. And I just would always put everything down to the fact that I wasn't there. Like she had those first, she had her first car ride and her mom wasn't there.
Jen (34:34.176)
No, no answers.
Jen (34:47.754)
Mmm.
Kate (34:52.717)
could you miss that sort of thing? And it's insane to think like that. that, like you were so vulnerable in that early postpartum state and you're trying to, you know, work a body that just doesn't function like it used to. You're trying to look after another being and just you want to just feel some scaric of normalcy.
which you just don't get as a new mom. Like I feel like that should be like a warning label on motherhood. You will not have your normal again for some time, know, except the chaos that it's going to be. So yes, that 100%, yeah, 100 % impacted my relationship with her and gave me a lot of doubt, but it
Jen (35:27.03)
Ever. Yeah.
Jen (35:32.108)
I like that, accept the chaos. Yep. Yep.
Kate (35:43.923)
held it together for the first few months really well, in my opinion. held it together for the first few months really well. I was so focused on not losing any more time with her because I felt shitty or whatever.
Jen (35:49.014)
Mm. Yep. Yep.
Jen (36:04.895)
And Kate, you think back to, mean, hats off to the anesthesist. Have you spoken to him since? Have you had time with him?
Kate (36:13.661)
Yes, yes, I've spoken to him a few times. I've spoken to him during one of my debriefings and he was so forthcoming with the information and filled in a lot of gaps for me. But I've also just seen him out and about and he's given me a big hug too. So that's one of the benefits of a small community is that sort of side of things like I've even had
Jen (36:38.924)
Yeah, yeah.
Kate (36:41.573)
asked her in for an appointment with him, like with a rash or something. And he kind of enjoys hearing that we're doing good, like we're cruising now.
Jen (36:51.51)
Yep, yeah that's good. And the obstetrician.
Jen (37:01.016)
How do you process that someone's mistake put you in a position like you ended up in?
Kate (37:13.329)
There was so many nursing staff, doctors, midwives, that when I was in Canberra, they're like, if you weren't as healthy as you were, like you wouldn't be here. And for me, I've tried to take that as it happened to me because my body could handle it. Because the other option is it happened to someone who had
gestational diabetes or other complications and then that Bubba wouldn't have had a mum and that would have been way worse. So that is my kind of focal point on that. Everyone makes mistakes, but it's how you choose to handle those mistakes.
There was a number of things that that obstetrician did. So when things were going pear shaped, she brought a consent form to me and she's like, you need to sign this document. And I was like, well, what is it? Like I couldn't, I could see an object. I could see paper, but I couldn't make out what it said. And she's like, it's just if I need to give you a hysterectomy, you know, it's, it's, like, I don't, I don't want a hysterectomy. And she's like,
you know, if we have to, that's what we're going to have to do. Like that's what's going to save your life here sort of thing. And that an ethos, like I said, he advocated for me numerous times. He actually stood in and he said, hold on, no, like she's not okay to be making this decision. She's not lucid enough. She's not well enough. And that obstetrician then took that form to my husband and asked him to sign
And I must say that is the only thing we never spoke about. We spoke about so many options of things that could go wrong and things that could go right in birth and that sort of thing. We never touched on a hysterectomy. And his kind of logic was really good. He's like, I want my wife and I want my baby. If that's what has to be done to save their life, that's what needs to be done. So he signed
Jen (39:09.496)
Mm.
Kate (39:24.423)
But just before they wheeled me into theater to do that second operation, the obstetrician shoved that form in front of me and got me to sign it. So she still, like, I haven't actually ever seen that document since, but that would not look like my signature. It would be a scribble of someone who is not functioning. So I have an issue with the pressure
Jen (39:34.947)
Bye.
Kate (39:53.971)
putting that decision on someone who is not well enough, like that is not, that's not consent. And although the decision like as lucid now would be, yes, I would rather my life.
you just don't, that's not okay. And to me, it became really obvious that she was trying to protect herself. This constant theme of trying to protect herself came up. After I was airlifted out, she spoke to my husband and she said, look, she's gonna need a debriefing after this and I'm happy to oblige. And it didn't matter how much we pursued a debriefing with her, it was always rejected.
So my only request I ever made of that obstetrician is that I was able to sit down with her on Zoom, Skype or face -to -face and hear her words of what happened. Because there's answers, like some of the questions I had only she could answer. So when I had debriefings down the track, which only happened after I put in a letter of complaint to the HCCC
Jen (40:38.07)
Okay.
Jen (41:05.688)
So, Kate, you've just led me to a good point actually. So after a birth like this happens, then there's a process afterwards. And that was, was that a process that you, and I want you to share with us about the debriefing, but was that a process that you initiated or was that a process that was offered to you?
Kate (41:28.819)
Canberra was probably the one, when they discharged me, they had a social worker come around and they offered me, know, the 15 brochures to all the different places, Gidget, you know, everyone. And they're like, you're gonna need a debriefing. You were gonna need a debriefing, but you've been in two hospitals, it's two separate debriefings. We're happy to oblige.
but we don't understand what happened to you. Your notes were really poor. We can tell you what happened on our end, but we can't tell you what led to that. And then through my postnatal care with the midwife, I kind of asked some questions and then kind of went into pursuing a debriefing with the hospital that I actually birthed at. But it
Jen (42:05.282)
Yep.
Kate (42:23.879)
Like I know now and I would, tell this to all mums I work with, every hospital has a different process of requesting a debriefing. It is not a stock standard process. So you have to find out how that hospital does it. And you have to go through their channels. I was given a phone number to call of the managing whoever. And I called it for weeks, weeks and weeks and weeks and no one ever answered.
And I'd even call reception and get put through. And she'd let me be put through. And then it was about, I don't know, I think I'd called three times in a day going, surely I have to catch this woman at her desk at some point. And she goes, she's never at her desk. You should just email her. And I spent like six or eight weeks trying to call. And ended up sending an email and kind of got a bit of a response. And I ended up
my first e -briefing with the obstetrician that I was booked into, that I'd had my care through my pregnancy that I'd seen once before, but he only read me my notes. And so when I was asking questions, questions about how did they repair this issue and what did they repair it with and probably more detail than what they expected, they couldn't answer the questions. They weren't there.
they only had the notes in front of them. And that isn't all the detail of what someone would recollect in that scenario. So yeah, I ended up pursuing, yeah, sending a letter to the HCCC, putting a complaint in. And part of that complaint was, don't want money. I'm not chasing money. I want time with this obstetrician to talk through this. As part of that, I ended up having
debriefing with both the anesthetists that worked on me, the one during the caesarean and the one that took over. Even the anesthetist nurse, they were even answered some of my questions and they had an obstetrician from out of area who had stepped in and started overseeing the hospital.
Kate (44:50.119)
have a really good chat with me about it. And he was a lot more forthcoming with information, but they will never directly say, they will never put it in writing that I was nicked. It's just something you have to kind of learn to accept through this process. They talk about it. And the only way that this could really happen is in this instance. But they won't say that is what happened.
Initially kind of grated on my bones, I guess a bit, but as things have progressed
Jen (45:25.036)
Hmm, more than I was taking responsibility, are they?
Kate (45:28.357)
No, no, but that it like everything comes from like starts to become this legal thing. So anytime I requested a debriefing with the actual obstetrician who performed the surgery, it was a solicitor's response each time and it just became that. So then when the HCCC complaint went through and she had to give responses, it was all done through her solicitor.
and they would always take the maximum amount of time to respond. So if they were given 30 days to respond, they would be replying on the 30th or the 31st day. And the HCCC, the lady who was handling my case was just mortified. Like she's like, they're just going about this the wrong way. And she was forthcoming in the fact that she was like, they've actually said, normally when you have a...
put in a complaint to the HCCC, you each get a copy of each other's responses to questions. So she got to see what I sent in to the HCCC, but she had made a request that I could never see her responses. So I never know what she responded to my questions to my, I don't think there was any accusations. The only accusation I think I may have made was that she put my mental health
risk by not being willing to have a debriefing with me, which I still to this day 100 % believe. Like that played a dramatic role on my mental health as well as probably delayed my help further down the track as I didn't have some of the answers about my physical body that could have progressed things quicker.
Jen (47:19.664)
And how has it played out since then Kate? that's not the only surgery that you've experienced.
Kate (47:27.141)
No, so
I had the the seizure and the the surgery to repair the bleed. And then last year in December after I think the first time I really went and kicked up a bit of a stink at the doctors was when I was about eight months, eight and a half months postpartum. I just wrapped up breastfeeding and I was just in agony. Like I was just getting all these pains and they'd come on really quick and last for six hours
you know, the build up to the pain, although the pain, like the acute phase was quite, I guess, short couple of hours, the pain build up would happen over a week and then kind of downgrade over a week. So it was, it felt like I was chewing up a lot of, I guess, my life and taking a lot of energy out of me. So I first reported that, yeah, about eight and a half months postpartum. And it wasn't until December.
last year that I had another surgery. I had a laparoscopic procedure and a histioscopic procedure all in one. That's following a new obstetrician that I've met that I love who did the surgery. She kind of straight away started listening to my symptoms and went okay we need to pain manage first then we're going to go down this road then we'll go down this road and then we'll go surgery.
But I just want to get a scan first. I'm going to send you to go get a high COSY scan. You're going to have to travel to go get it. I really want to see what this scan looks like. And after she got the scan results, she just called me. goes, you're going in for surgery. We're not waiting anymore. You need surgery. About 50 % of my uterus was not really visible in a high COSY scan. So a high COSY scan is an internal ultrasound where fluid is injected at the same time.
Kate (49:25.939)
so that they can see cavity space. And you could say, you know, about 50 % of my cavity space just wasn't viewable. And that was due to adhesions. So scarring. So the idea of the hystereoscopic surgery was to separate all those adhesions and try and get some flow back to my left fallopian tube. And the laparoscopic procedure was to try and
You know, they're now assuming there's adhesions elsewhere throughout my torso as well. What they did find laparoscopically is part of my bowel was looped around my ovary. So that was causing some considerable pain. Just tension throughout my back, I guess you could say. But they weren't super successful with the adhesions in my uterus. They were too dense. They only got 50 % of the way through and they weren't
Jen (50:07.586)
Mm.
Kate (50:21.085)
confident that that would stay and I had to have a follow -up hycosis scan and it all re -adhered. earlier this year, yeah earlier this year, I had another procedure where I was referred to a professor in Sydney. I'm very grateful I had access to him. He has led the way in this sort of procedure.
and he actually laser cut all the adhesions out. And so I've been officially diagnosed with stage three Ashman's, which is really bad scarring in the uterus, basically. So there's possibly still one more procedure in the pipeline in about six months, but we'll just have to wait and
Jen (51:07.041)
Yeah.
Jen (51:14.088)
those adhesions were caused by damage to the uterus when it was taken out and put back in again. Is that right?
Kate (51:20.787)
It can't be specifically put to that. Ashman's can be a result of infections, trauma to the uterus, yes, definitely. you know, in this sort of setting, excuse me, kind of say, yeah, it's the trauma to the uterus. It's being nicked, it's bleeding out,
Organs don't like being exposed to that much blood. They don't like sitting in blood. Sounds really weird, because we've got a fair bit of blood in our body, your organs aren't supposed to swim in it, basically. So yeah, there's a lot of different factors, but yes, I didn't have Ashman's before I had that surgery.
Jen (52:10.774)
Yeah, yeah. Kate, you talked about mental health before. Is there anything that I guess one, you want to touch on and two key things that have supported your mental health throughout this whole process and what you would say to anyone else going through their, I'm not gonna say a similar experience, I'm gonna say their experience.
Kate (52:33.203)
I probably waited a little bit longer to get help. I was very aware of mental health issues and that I was at high risk. But I was so focused on trying to get that debriefing, get that complaint sorted and get through that process that it kind of got pushed aside. like, I'm going to get answers and that's going to make me feel better. But you don't always get the answers you want.
let alone sometimes as I've learned, you don't get answers. So in the end, I was exceptionally anxious. So I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression. Very high markers towards PTSD, but not quite there. So my anxiety levels or what they talk about hyper arousal were just through the roof.
But some of my other markers were just below the line of that. So that took some work. That meant having conversations that I didn't really want to have. And talking it like you talk about it and it desensitizes you to a degree. But I would openly talk about it with some people. But it was very different to talk about it to a psychologist.
It was very different experience. It was a lot rarer to talk to a psychologist because you were not trying to hold it together for anyone in that moment. So I think speaking to someone outside of your circle is really important for that healing process. It sucks. And some days it made me feel like I'd been hit by a Mack truck. Like it was brutal, but it did help. But because
I seeked help later in the process. I also felt like I often didn't fit into a lot of the categories. So a lot of things talk about like the first 12 months and that postpartum period. And I was kind of, when I was kind of really starting to angle to getting help, was kind of 10 months and they're like, we can get you help, but our funding won't cover you once you tick over that 12 month period. So you could
Kate (54:48.441)
maybe one or two appointments with us, but then you're to have to change to someone else. So I was in this awkward zone of I could build rapport with someone, which was hard because I no longer trusted medical professionals. Or I had a distrust in Bill now. Or I could find someone else and fit into that box, but were they going to understand my specific
Jen (55:04.994)
Fair enough.
Kate (55:18.237)
postnatally sort of needs, I guess, was a concern.
think there needs to be a bridging of the gap there. Like I can see there's a hole there in supporting mom through mental health. If you give them support and then at 12 months it switches off. You it's kind of like the, you your six week check or you get six weeks of community midwife coming to see you. And then after six weeks, if there's nothing like majorly bad, like I guess you'd say my, I had some concerns.
because of how unwell I'd been, I had to go back for further doctor Tessie and that, but I still only had six weeks of midwifery care and it just vanishes. And, that for a mom is just, you know, you, you have that support and then it's gone. And that was something you were relying on and that was holding you together. That what you're those little, yeah. It kind of, it amazes me that there isn't like a tapered approach, I guess, to
Jen (56:23.49)
This is, yeah. I think it to me, what's coming up for me is that there is no one size fits all, right? And what I can see in you that, it would not be the same for everyone because everyone's why different, but you had this experience and it was really hard, but your personality was let me collect the facts. Let me get this to help. Let me, I've now got goals to get through this. I'm going to have a debrief. I'm going to, you know,
Kate (56:23.683)
support ending.
Jen (56:50.776)
push my case forward and I'm gonna, and it's not until you almost can't go through the therapy that you need to go through when you've got to keep your shit together in order to get a job done. And people need to reckon, so it's like, you've got to get to the end of that to then go, and then you've got to go, fuck, this is gonna be hard. Do I even want to go back right to the beginning to go through that? I think I can, you know, there's a few things that are coming up for me in that.
people could very easily shut that down at that point, because they're like, I've been through this, it's 12 months later, or it's 18 months later, or it's nine months later, whatever it is, and I don't want to go there. And then that's going to catch up with them for the rest of their life. Or someone like use like, okay, I've done the, you know, the admin, and now I need to support me. And it's almost like, you know, why don't we have a period of care that you can access at the time that you need it, not on somebody
So it might be, we're gonna give you six months of support, and we're gonna give you 12 months of support or whatever it is when you need it. So you just get to access that in five years time if you need it. Like that is, makes sense to me.
Kate (57:56.819)
Like I talk to mums, yeah, I talk to mums all the time. I have a mum that I work with now and her eldest child is 16 and she definitely has trauma from the birth. but she hasn't, she hasn't gotten help. She's just sold it on like, and she's an incredible woman, but she has to carry that. And that isn't fair. Like if she's ready to put that down, she should be allowed to. And it feels like there is restrictions about when you're allowed to.
You can drop your bundle in the first 12 months, that's okay, but after that point, then you might need to go somewhere else.
Jen (58:33.422)
And it's only if in that first 12 months she's had the opportunity to talk about it, right? Because I mean, if no one's actually said, maybe you experienced some trauma, would you like to talk about it? And she might even just go, no. But women often don't even realize that they've been through trauma or it wasn't normal, or it wasn't like depending on what's happened to them. Yeah, there's so much.
Kate (58:33.757)
And I
Kate (58:59.891)
Like, I was only given that I was only had a social worker come because it was noted everyone could see that was terrible. What happens if it's for a mom that, you know, medically it's perfect, their idea of an ideal birth. But for that mom, it was the most horrifying thing that ever happened to her. Like that moment may have cracked her soul a little bit. You know, she might
Like it's just, it shouldn't matter. It just shouldn't matter. And it should be whenever you need that help, there is someone available, some service available that fits that mold of whenever you need
Jen (59:47.046)
Yeah, Kate, if you could change things, what are the fundamental things that you would put in place to support women, postpartum women?
Kate (59:58.247)
There should be Medicare funded women's health physio sessions during pregnancy. Women should have the choice of where they birth. So I think it's in New Zealand that you can home birth or you can hospital birth. Like here's the funds with a lot to it. You choose how you want to spend it on whatever birth you'd like.
Jen (59:59.296)
in the birth trauma space.
Kate (01:00:27.729)
you know, we all have different monetary standpoints in different stages of our lives and what we can achieve in this point in time or what we can afford in this point in time is different to later. There is such, there's so much there in preventative health. So if you funded minimum two women's health physio sessions during pregnancy, along with obviously, you know, all the standard stuff.
And then postnatally, there needs to be sessions with a women's health physio. There needs to be sessions with muscular skeletal physios because you go from being someone that has very gradually had a center of gravity shift as your belly has expanded to within hours, you're totally different shape. Your center of gravity has changed. You might be feeling real loosey goosey or you might be feeling
tight as like that is one of the things I never understood until before having my daughter is how incredibly tight you could feel after having a baby. I expected my stomach to feel so loose. I couldn't even lay flat on the ground on my stomach. Not from the pain of laying on it, but I was so physically tight.
Like that needs a musculoskeletal physio to come in there. So you kind of need minimum two sessions with a women's health physio to identify issues and give them then some exercises to do and then musculoskeletal physio support for ongoing because breastfeeding, carrying children, sleeping like, you know, this because they're sick. You know, it's preventative health and it's so much cheaper than multiple surgeries.
Botox injections into pelvic floor. You know, we're at such an extreme end of the spectrum with women. There is so little knowledge, specific knowledge about women and how their system works and how we can prevent and heal them. It's really disappointing.
Jen (01:02:41.965)
I'm hearing you. think it's why I love those pelvic health physios that are musculoskeletal as well. And that's I had the privilege of working, that's who I worked hand in hand with throughout my whole 10 years of running my group fitness business for moms. So it's like, I think I was spoiled and didn't know it at the time. So if there's a mom listening or a trainer listening, if you can work with a pelvic health physio that is both awesome, go with that. But this conversation around
preventative health for moms and pelvic health physiotherapy and fucking education that every mom should have access to is, and I think Kate, I can feel your frustration because it feels exactly like mine. It's not that fucking hard. We're throwing money at so many things now, especially in the women's health space. Why have we not made this one of the key fundamental things?
Kate (01:03:37.991)
Yeah, like you think of how much money is spent on women.
or how much women suffer basically from that perimenopause stage where, you know, that's when things really start to get exacerbated. You go through your like your next round of puberty basically, and your hormones get all janky, you know, we do that a few times in our lives, but it happens again. You know, we've got so much muscle loss, there's so many factors to it. What if we preempted them? What if
Jen (01:04:14.562)
Peace.
Kate (01:04:14.577)
had. It's just infuriating really.
Jen (01:04:17.824)
Yeah, it's like, I'm seeing all this stuff now around the perimenopause and menopause space. And I think it's amazing. anyone listening, I do not want to take away from that. Like there's menopause clinics opening and there's all this stuff. I cannot get past if we backtrack a little bit and exactly like you said, Kate, we've still not fixed the pregnancy and postpartum bit. And then now we're giving the perimenopause and menopause bit. And there'd be a lot of women
that have had babies that are still suffering from things from having babies and now it's exasperated in perimenopause and menopause. So where is the preempting the pelvic floors and all that kind of thing before having babies and then the pelvic health physiotherapies after having babies so that when we get to perimenopause and menopause, it's not as bad.
Kate (01:05:05.935)
Exactly, like let's go to the root cause of some of these issues. you know, sounds early detection of breast cancer. we strive for those sorts of things. Let's have early detection of pelvic floor dysfunction. Let's, you know, let's not have women thinking that it's normal to have painful sex. Like there's so many layers to
Jen (01:05:22.316)
or just knowledge of pelvic floor would be a good start. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kate (01:05:32.307)
And it's not a simple fix, I get that. And our health system, although there is some incredible things about the Australian health system, there is actually some incredible flaws too. We have to not only recognize the good, but recognize why we're falling short and look at systems that are working really well where we're letting ourselves down. You there's some fantastic, you know, things they do in Scandinavia that are brilliant support for mums.
Unfortunately, you need someone bit higher up in the food chain to make those things happen.
Jen (01:06:11.466)
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? It's like where are the women advocating for the women? I mean, there are some out there. There's a really great politician in Queensland doing some fantastic work in the women's space and the health space. And we need the men on board that are sitting at the seats at the table that will advocate in this space rather than just being an uphill battle. Kate, if we circle around to
Is there anything else that you want to share or offer support to anyone experiencing any kind of birth trauma or yeah, is that, I just want to offer you a little bit more space.
Kate (01:06:54.331)
I one of the biggest doubts I've ever had, and I suppose this is coming from a fitness professional's background, but I started to think issues following my experience were the pain, all those things I was experiencing. I started to kind of question myself. I'm like, am I going a bit crazy? Like, is this all in my head? And that's someone with no knowledge of anatomy,
understand it. I have a pretty good understanding of what happened to me. you know, and I was like, maybe, maybe this is mental health. I like, before they would look at my physical health, like they were like two years, you need two years before of healing before we can really consider anything because of the massive clotting issues that damaged ligaments and all those sorts of things that happened.
But I kept going back and I was like, I'm really uncomfortable and I'd have internal ultrasounds and I'd have all these things. And it wasn't until someone kind of really sat down and heard every piece of information that I was giving them, rather than me going into the doctor and going, I've got this pain, this is really hurting. I'm still got that back pain at my next doctor's appointment. When that obstetrician sat me down, she goes, hey,
I've got to move extra time. want to hear all your story. She spent an hour and 20 minutes with me. And then she said, tell me what's happening now. And I gave her this array of what would look like to most people, super random symptoms. And she went, okay, I think you've definitely got scarring like with this sort of surgery like that. She said, do you know how they repair it? And I said, no, that's what I've searched for is that answer. She goes, the longer your uterus is left to bleed like
She said, it becomes more inflamed. The longer it sits in blood, it becomes more inflamed. It becomes harder and harder to see where the bleeding is coming from. So they stitch and they just keep stitching until the bleeding stops. They just keep stitching and they don't care what they stitch, they just stitch. And she said, and then at the end of that, they might see if they've attached anything vital to something that it shouldn't be. And they'll try and unpick that, but they won't want to touch it too much because they don't actually know where.
Kate (01:09:18.855)
What has exactly stopped that bleed? But she heard me, she looked at all of the symptoms, she explained to me not only what had happened, but how that injury is generally repaired, which is an exceptionally rare injury. I don't want any mums that are pregnant listening to this to be like, my God, that chance is a very slim that that had happened.
But yeah, that process up until I met her, I was really starting to question my sanity. And then to have those scans and have a go, no, we need to do surgery. this is way worse than we thought. Like she wanted an additional surgeon in for the first surgery because she expected it to be that bad and they still couldn't do
You're not crazy. Like if you feel your body doesn't feel right, that that warrants being pursued. No matter what people are saying, you need to just get the right person to listen. And you need to hear what they're saying too. If they think your mental health is suffering and you need to deal with that, you do need to deal with that. But that doesn't mean that the rest of it doesn't need to be pursued still. And that is probably the one piece of thing
And I see it with moms when they come in and they talk to me and I take their exercise history and I'm like, why do you think this pain is okay? Like, let's deal with this. Let's get you in to see a physio. Let's assess, let's make sure it's not musculoskeletal. This sounds like it could be a referral from pelvic floor. Let's go talk to a women's health physio. This isn't right. Let's go to your GP. Let's start a process of getting a referral. Be persistent. But why should you have to advocate that hard when you are at your most vulnerable?
Jen (01:10:45.399)
Mmm.
Jen (01:11:07.126)
Yeah, I think it's, and you took the word right out of my mouth, like you have to find a way to advocate. Maybe finding someone who can help support you to advocate for yourself or who can advocate for you, which I think is what you're now able to do for your clients, right? You hear and you see, and a lot of our Mumsafe trainers do it. It's like, I know that this is not right and you've been living with this for so long. So maybe the message out there to...
any mum experiencing anything, any woman, anyone experiencing anything that they know is not right. Not to just take somebody is like, that's normal, or I'm just going to live with pain or whatever it is and keep fighting to be listened to, even though it shouldn't be that hard to get listened to in the first place.
Kate (01:11:58.963)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's like I said, when I'm grateful, I'm grateful that I'm here. I'm grateful that I can have this conversation with you. But I'm also super, super grateful that I have a partner who didn't fog me off. Like, I'm sure there's moments where he's like, oh, you're going on about this again.
Jen (01:12:19.578)
Mm.
Kate (01:12:24.295)
But he held it in and he supported me through every step of the way. And it's always been like, let's just get your pain under control. Like my job is physical. So physical pain is a bit of a problem. let's just like, he was the one who was able to keep me focused on tackling one beast at a time really, rather than trying to do them all, which my brain kind of just goes, let's do a little bit of everything. So without his backing, without his support,
without the days where the pain would be, I can't move, I don't even wanna breathe, I wanna go curl in a hole. Being able to call him and go, you just gotta come, you need to come. can't mum right now, I can't be the parent that I need to be for our child. I need you to show up and show up in a big way because I'm gonna go to bed and I'm gonna hide under the covers with a heat pack and take all the drugs that I can to make this go away.
Jen (01:13:11.118)
Mm.
Kate (01:13:24.657)
Yeah, so I think the support of a partner or a family member or a best friend or someone from mum's group, like locally we have an incredible mum's group that's run by a council worker and she's gorgeous. I've spoken a few times at her events and the way she supports those women is just divine. So there are people out there that will help connect you and support you, but use
Jen (01:13:24.92)
Mm.
Jen (01:13:51.83)
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And we'll put some links to Birth Trauma Association and also COPE, the Center of Perinatal Excellence has a lot of really great resources around mental health and birth trauma and things like that in the show notes. Kate, I want to say a really big thank you for putting your hand up to say, hey, I'm willing to come and share my story and taking time out of your day when I know that you've got a lot of life going on. It's an absolute pleasure.
to not hear your story and the fact that I wanna hear your story, but a pleasure to be associated with you both in a professional sense and also your willingness to come and share. Whenever we have interactions, I always take a lot away from them. I love when we actually get to see each other in person. And I really appreciate your generosity and being so open to share with anyone that's listening. And also the work that you're doing in your community because it's so important.
Kate (01:14:46.867)
Well thank you for having me, like
Kate (01:14:51.965)
Thank you, Jen.
It's, yeah,
Jen (01:14:55.202)
Were there any last things you wanted to add in before we go?
Kate (01:15:00.743)
Well, thank you for having me. Thank you for hearing my story and letting it just be what it is because it's what it's a strung out story over several or a few years, I guess. But thanks for what you're doing. Like you're giving us, us, MumSafe trainers a place to amplify ourselves and to amplify
what we can offer mums, which means there's more mums getting help. Like, yeah, I wouldn't be doing this if you weren't giving me the opportunity. Like I would like to, but it would have been a lot harder to achieve. I think, you know, I showed up, but you go, you're giving all of us, not just myself, but all of the mum safe trainers that have trained with you, an opportunity that is so hard to come by.
and you're making it easy for us to be able to help others. And that flow on effect, like that's what moms need. That's what's going to create change. Hopefully we stamp our feet loud enough and when we all do it together, there's a big ripple.
Jen (01:16:12.811)
It is a team effort, isn't it? And I appreciate every single one of our trainers. Kate, thank you for your words. I always take words like that right in my heart, because it makes me feel happy. But yeah, thank you again for being with us today. To anyone listening, if you want to get in contact with Kate, whether you want to have a conversation, Kate, where's the best place for them to reach out to you, if you're okay with that, of course.
Kate (01:16:37.179)
Yep. Best place is either through the Mum Safe website or they can send me an email at info at bayactivept .com .au and I'll get back to you. I'll help however I can, whether if that's linking you to someone who can help you better than I can or, you know, having a chat like I'm here to help.
Jen (01:17:04.662)
Awesome. love it. Kate, have a beautiful rest of your it is Friday afternoon that we're recording this Friday afternoon and we will see each other again soon. Take
Kate (01:17:13.957)
Okay awesome, thank you so much Jen.
Bye.
