Jen (00:01.138)
Sam, welcome to the Mom Safe Movement podcast. How you going?
Samantha (00:05.46)
I'm well, I'm really excited to finally be talking to you.
Jen (00:09.51)
Me too. It feels like it's been a bit in the making, but I think these things always are with the people that you want to talk to when they've got so much going on in life in general. But let's kick off with the way we always kick off the podcast, which is for you to share a word in which how you're showing up today, something that you're winning at and also something that you're working
Samantha (00:33.23)
Okay, so a word, a word to describe. I think things feel a little bit messy. So messy. And what am I working on? Yep, so messy is the word. Kind of a good messy. Like there's a lot of different things, but it's kind of, I know the order, but probably from the outside world, it would be, you know, messy. What am I working on?
I am working on so many things, but I am trying to tidy up the very finishing of like a her trails merchandise range that we've been doing. And my block to that is I'm having issues with the printer. One of the printer, the manufacturing industry is like predominantly kind of run by men. And I find it sometimes as a female business owner.
Jen (01:03.752)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (01:15.222)
yep.
Samantha (01:30.41)
a real challenge in that space. that's kind of, that is something I'm dealing
Jen (01:37.392)
It sounds like that everything's space, right? The fitness industry, the merchandise industry, like, yeah, anyway.
Samantha (01:42.892)
I'm sure we could have, we could do an entire podcast on that topic of women being particularly in business when you have to work with suppliers or you have to move things forward and you need, you can't do everything yourself because your business is bigger than just yourself. And so you need to rely upon the expertise and skillsets of others and how it constantly feels like pushing a fricking boulder up a hill.
And I try and say to some of my male friends, they're like, why does it always seem like it's a bit dramatic or why are they always issues? And I'm like, you have no idea that it feels like I'm going into battle every single day to make what seems easy to you, even just get started. and then I've now had a couple of friends like join in on meetings and they go, wow, you were treated so differently than how I would be treated doing a situation like that. And you know,
I really like to pick the people that I work with really carefully, but sometimes you have to kind of go broader than that, depending on what you're trying to get done. And yeah, I think depending on what else is going on in your life will impact your capacity and your tolerance to, to withstand and kind of just, yeah, tolerate
Jen (03:00.514)
with that extra bullshit that you have to deal with because you're a female. Yeah, it's like that as well isn't it like you you say you go and buy a car and maybe it's the car that you're buying and they talk to your husband and you're like dude I'm buying the car or maybe buying a house and it's like the conversation was with yeah with the man. Yeah,
Samantha (03:17.818)
yeah, mean, even I was guiding a trip once and we finished the guiding trip and there were these some rangers at the end of the hike and they were like, who's your guide? And the women kind of pointed to like me and another guy and they just, their rangers basically refused to kind of talk to me. Like they couldn't at all absorb the fact that maybe I'd be the person in authority. And I think I go through phases and seasons where I feel this more.
Jen (03:42.449)
Hmm.
Samantha (03:46.764)
Sometimes I'm like, no, let's just get it happening. And like, just let's, it is part and parcel. And there's other times where I'm like, this is such bullshit to have to deal with this and how much load women in business have. then like on top of it, like you also have the load of being a mom and you're trying to do both of them at the time. And you really, it's very hard to section off time in your life to fully focus onto one of the things without.
having that responsibility of the other element.
Jen (04:20.364)
Yeah, and then you're already like what you said about capacity before you're already up here in terms of whether it's emotional capacity or any kind of capacity and then you just got to deal with yeah, like you said the battle of Yeah, yeah, I don't think
Samantha (04:34.498)
Yeah, mean, yeah, you know that one of the reasons why we've postponed this podcast is my dad's been sick recently. And so I think that has taken this really a big toll on myself, my mom, my sister, and because he's been in hospital, I don't know, since mid -May. He got bacterial meningitis and was in a coma for two weeks.
We didn't think that he would wake up from it. He wasn't induced into a coma. He was just didn't wake up. And it's just interesting how that kind of knocks you because like your parents are like your foundation and my parents are very integrated into my life. Like we're kind of that Eastern European background. So like that kind of like multi -generational like we don't live together. My sister actually lives quite a lot with my parents, but we
if you call living beyond just the physical space, like we are intertwined in each other's lives. And so when that kind of gets taken away, and at least in the way that you know it, it's just that has chipped away at some of my like steadiness recently.
Jen (05:47.996)
can imagine like it's it's I think we're all getting to that age aren't we where it's like it's a reality that something's going to happen to our parents at some point, but it doesn't make it any easier at all. So sending you all lots and lots of love and I hope he makes a complete full recovery. Yeah, it's it's extra extra.
Samantha (05:57.612)
Yeah.
Samantha (06:04.486)
yeah, that part won't happen. But I do love how we've gone straight into the meat in this conversation. But I also, how could it not when you ask someone to say a word, which is then therefore, for the most part, describing a feeling. And then the other part is to say like the action of something like it does kind of, you know, it forces you to kind of not go into pre -prepared answers and make you think about what's happening right now. And I think
Jen (06:09.074)
Okay.
Yeah, yeah,
Jen (06:21.756)
Mm -hmm.
Jen (06:32.037)
It does.
Samantha (06:34.965)
in all different spheres of life right now, personal, professional, I feel a sense of heaviness that people are having from whether it be what's happening because of financial strain. Electricity prices went up 30 % last year in Australia and that on its own would be hard to kind of handle. In addition, petrol prices, grocery prices, just general cost of living in every single facet of going
Jen (07:00.998)
Interest rates. Yep.
Samantha (07:03.67)
know, we have what's happening, you know, in Israel, you know, and all these different parts in America. And whilst they might not impact us on a day to day, you can't help but be interconnected by our digital connectivity and therefore feel a sense of responsibility to, to want to be able to do something and you actually can't. So it's, it's complicated times, I think for a lot of people.
Jen (07:29.838)
Yeah, it is, it is. And that adds to the the bit I just picked up then was that you want to be able to do something but you can't. And that adds to the heaviness, right? And then somehow you have to switch off that awareness of the whole world to go back to concentrate on your world, because that's where you can have an influence. And that's where you can do things. Yeah, I love
Samantha (07:49.75)
Yeah. And your community, it's good to be, I go, I oscillate between being very connected to the broader world. You know, I'm a world vision ambassador. I think we do have a responsibility to care about the world and the community and the issues around us. But not to an extent that it breaks you from being present from your own experience.
And also it's great to have perspective, but just because someone's experiencing something worse doesn't mean that you can't also have your own positive or negative emotion to what you're experiencing. So it's, I guess in life what I've realized now, like I'm edging kind of closer to that forties, nothing's black and white. Like there's no hard and fast rules of anything. Like there's this like total fluidity. And maybe that's like the kind of thing that comes from experience.
Jen (08:49.522)
Yeah, it's such a dichotomy, isn't it? And especially, and I look straight back to being a mum, it's like being able to hold all the things and somehow try and be that, you know, the center of the hurricane of all the things that are going on. And yeah, still have the experiences, do the things, forge forward in life, but then be okay with where you are and then take on all these fucking responsibilities. And then...
take on your children's experience as well. Like my kids are now 14 and 16, so they're starting to have their own world views and they're seeing things and it's like, okay, well how do we not shelter them from things, but have open and genuine conversations with them about their views and what they're exposed to and how to get equal exposure to different things and then what they should or shouldn't be looking at anyway. So it's interesting.
Samantha (09:38.55)
Yeah, and kids are being exposed to a lot of this stuff probably way earlier than we would have been exposed to it because of technology.
and you also can't control the consumption of kids around them and therefore based on what other children around your child are consuming can then be shared and talked about. So you sometimes are having conversations that perhaps you didn't think were something that you wanted to talk about but you have to address it if it's something that's come into their remit and so it's I think there's
It is a very fascinating thing. I run a female business as well. It's called Her Trails and it's about supporting women embracing trails, but, and we do it through like trail running and like group runs and retreats, but it's actually the notion of trail is far broader. It's like those undefined kind of pathways. What's the mindset required to...
Enter into something where you haven't always felt like you perhaps belonged or haven't felt like you've had the time to invest into. And how can that also serve into other areas of your life that aren't like trail running kind of things. And so we have like so many of these like interesting mindset conversations and how to like the things that we learn on the trails, the parallel analogies in other areas of our life, whether it's professional and personal. And it's this very juicy boiling pot because
we provide free group runs in like almost kind of 20 locations around Australia and New Zealand now. And so women are congregating together on the trails. Like in the Dandenong ranges, we can have from 70 to 80 women on a fortnight running on these trails. It doesn't matter what experience people come to that point, everyone is incredibly inclusive. And we can talk about the notion of inclusivity later, because a lot of people say, no, like anyone can come, but then they don't care about the person who's at the back. they
Samantha (11:43.682)
They don't respect the fact that they had to be incredibly brave to come there. And your job as a group leader is to never break the spirit of the brave. And the pace will be what the pace is of the people who are there. And these conversations that I'm sure that we're going to talk about are really being had. But I find it so fascinating that I feel that women are always talking about like personal growth and the challenge of it, but the desire for it.
And I don't really hear many of my, not many of my male friends having these kinds of conversations. Now that doesn't mean that they're not feeling it internally or they're not actioning it, but there's not that kind of like dialogue. And therefore I think when you don't have that dialogue, sometimes it becomes a very narrow lens of it because it's just what you think in your brain, which sometimes we can tell ourselves, we can create a false reality when it's just something internalized versus when you have to share it, you have to test check it.
And then sometimes you get caught out on your bullshit. And sometimes you also kind of like questioned on the invisible rules that you've created and then you get support. And it's like, so I think you can expand your potential so much quicker because you have that community of women that are hopefully are in a similar type of mindset as well. So everything that we probably will talk about here is like the conversations that I'm having with women all the time.
Jen (12:46.929)
Yeah.
Jen (13:11.856)
Yeah, I love it. I love it. What I might do Sam is and you did a beautiful job of introducing her trails and what you do, but let the people that I don't know somehow don't know who you are. I mean, I came across you. I spoke to your, I can't remember her name, your beautiful assistant. And I said, I vividly remember a caravan in Centennial Park. And was that you running or am I've just got have connected that complete? Because I remember someone
Samantha (13:28.579)
Listen.
Jen (13:41.082)
or you were doing a marathon, you just had a baby or you were just pregnant and you were running. And I was like, who is this woman doing this incredible thing either just after Harry was born or when you were pregnant? And I can't remember which, it was years ago now or maybe not.
Samantha (13:57.558)
my gosh. I mean, I'm always doing different things. can't specifically remember Centennial Park. I've definitely done runs around there, but no, around having Harry, like just as I was pregnant, did an Adelaide to Melbourne nonstop relay with the group of men. and we did have a van. We did have a van and we kind of like would get in and out. That was when I was pregnant. And then post having Harry, you know, have done.
Jen (14:02.128)
Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Mmm.
Jen (14:12.028)
Maybe that was it. Maybe I saw it on social media. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Samantha (14:22.318)
know, different types of kind of adventures and expeditions specifically in the endurance space. And they all have their own like, yes, I've spent the last, since I was really 24, 25, you know, I came from a background of being quite physically dormant and perhaps not so much from skill set, but more from like the fear that I wouldn't be good at that.
Jen (14:37.894)
Yep. Yep.
Samantha (14:51.511)
And so in my mid twenties, I started to kind of like test myself, particularly in spaces that I had told myself that I was shit at, to be honest. Because I had a lot of people around me who were like, you know, if you don't ever try something, you really can't say that you're terrible at it.
But it's amazing how we formulate these very ingrained views about our abilities and our capacity and even who we are as people. And there's actually very limited evidence to back it up. Except for like this really heavy thought in our brain. And so, you know, in my mid 20s, I just tried a whole bunch of stuff, quashed a whole lot of narratives that I thought of myself. And one of them was that like I was not good at sport. And the reality
you shouldn't expect to be good at something that you don't try and you don't put effort in. And there are some fluke occasions where people are good just off nothing and they can go and do a half marathon, but they've never really run before. And I'm like, you're amazing that there is something so beautiful about having to work for something. You reap so many more benefits. And so for anyone listening to this, if you try something and you're not good at it to begin with,
as opposed to putting into the too hard basket. Say to yourself, if I keep pursuing this thing, I not only will obviously get better at this thing, but I am gonna learn so much more about myself and it's gonna give me so much more resolve and resilience, which I really can package up and transpose into many, different scenarios and situations that are to come in my life. So there's benefit in the now and into the future. And so for me, like I had a very fast...
track exposure to endurance sports, really before endurance sports was as a big thing. So back in 2010, really within like a year of doing my first marathon, I did what was called the Four Deserts Grand Slam, which was four 250 kilometer desert ultra marathons, which was in the hottest, the coldest, driest and the windiest deserts on earth. And there's so many different styles of endurance races, also
Jen (16:55.066)
yeah?
Samantha (17:08.374)
in this context known as ultra marathon running. But in this particular one, it was called like self supported. And that meant you had to carry all of your supplies, six days of the race in a pack on your back. And except for water, which you would get to refill. And they also gave you a tent that you shared with like eight other people. And invariably, I basically shared with seven other guys and myself.
Jen (17:33.448)
Of course, yeah.
Samantha (17:35.054)
the ratio of women back in 2010 who were doing ultra marathons was minuscule. And so I kind of stood on many of those start lines, having no idea what I was doing. You know, I'm 4 '11 .5, you know, I was carrying a pack that was, you know, 25 % of my body weight, looking at these Amazonian, you know, the other women who looked really physically strong and then these like six foot plus men, and they had
backpacks on that looked like a mosquito bite compared to like me feeling like a turtle. And at the beginning all I kept focusing on was what was my very clear disadvantage. And the more I consumed myself with that, the more I almost self -selected to quit. And what I know to be true is that actually every single person has a disadvantage.
Jen (18:19.666)
Interesting.
Jen (18:26.758)
out.
Samantha (18:33.548)
Some are really obvious, cue in being small and short. But there are other people whose disadvantages are really secret and they can be based on experiences that they've had typically when they're younger and they can affect their mental state, which in the context of ultramarathon running, where your mind goes, your body typically follows because the mind and the body are inextricably linked.
So to think that you are the only person that has a disadvantage will almost, it will rule you out of being brave and bold to try new things. And so now I know when I stand on start lines, my kind of secret source is in that moment to magnify all the things that I'm good at because success will depend on where intention lies. And the time for due diligence and
risk mitigation and like evaluating your negatives should happen earlier and like in the training block or in the preparation phase. But when you are literally on the start line of something, your mindset being like strong is critical. that's kind of, that is, I guess, a very quick introductory of how I got into endurance sports. It was a massive baptism of fire where I think there is a beauty of not knowing what you don't know. Because sometimes...
Jen (19:34.811)
It's all gone. Yeah.
Jen (19:56.648)
I agree with that phrase. Yep. There's plenty of stuff I've done that I've just gone, I would not do that if I knew and now I have to do it again. Do I really want to do that? Like.
Samantha (19:58.594)
Yeah, I'm sure really even.
Samantha (20:04.908)
Yeah, my gosh, do you know how much it took? I mean, even doing a podcast and like, always kind of like you people who host a podcast and I'm sure you do, you know, from the, you know, getting the guests to lining up with the schedules and then sometimes like having your schedule all over the place and, you know, editing the podcast and getting the marketing tiles, like it's such an enormous job. And I know this because I did it for a month, I a year during COVID I did one.
a week and it's so big and I definitely would not have done a year of podcasting if I knew. I committed to it so therefore I was in it but if I had known what it was I probably would not have done it.
Jen (20:46.448)
Yes, yes. I think it took me two or three years to start the podcast for that reason. And then I quickly went, I'm going to do seasons because when I get to the point that I need a rest, I just need to stop and then I'll pick up again. And I just had two weeks off for school holidays, which was not my intention, but I just had to be gentle and go, it's fucking school holidays. I can't hold all the things. And I'd not, I'd had some, not just yourself, but other people lined up and it's like, well, for whatever reason, they're not coming. So.
pick up again later. But yeah, yeah.
Samantha (21:17.176)
But like seasons is an important topic, like for mums, for women. I mean, what season do you think you're in right now?
Jen (21:23.42)
for women. Yep, absolutely.
Jen (21:32.22)
That's a good question, a really good question. And it's interesting because I'm not in that new motherhood season.
Jen (21:47.29)
I kind of sometimes feel like I'm in a holding season a little bit.
Jen (21:55.014)
But I'm what? That's really great question. I did not expect a question turned around on me.
Samantha (22:00.271)
This is not how it works, Sam. I ask the questions.
Jen (22:02.874)
I'm like, dude, no, it's I want to say I'm in a growth season, but I actually think I'm in a I'm still in that or I've reentered like a seedling like a planting season. And, and it's, I see, I've gone straight into business, but I also have this awareness of my children as well. Like I have my daughter has some challenges going to school. So, you know, where
this part of me that battle is going, I should be in this season by now, but I'm not in this season because my attention is also here where it needs to be. So be patient. So maybe I'm in that planting and watering and trying not to overwater season to make things grow quicker. A season of patience. Yeah.
Samantha (22:49.27)
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's, it's so interesting because I think sometimes we, we don't honor like what is naturally the season we're meant to be in because we like have these really unrealistic expectations of ourselves. And also sometimes like really limiting expectations of ourselves that we are meant to be maybe where we were previously, whether it's like,
you know, as a trial runner, like maybe I should be where I was like a year ago when the reality is like based on all the things that might be going on in my life, whether it's personal or professional, like that is just not realistic. And the reality is I actually could be way stronger than what I was in the past. So why do we want to be the version of what we have been? Shouldn't we always want to evolve to what's next? But it's just it's like that it kind of syncs to me really similar with that kind of concept of FOMO.
And all of that is just like us holding onto the past and not honoring what can come. And the reason we get maybe fearful of that is because it's the unknown. And so if we kind of let that go and just release ourselves from this weird pressure and expectation and go like, the future is full of potential. It's also kind of scary and gives a bit of anxiety because we don't know. And if, you know, I can be bit of like that type A personality
And I absolutely had to cultivate my patience and desire to almost be excited about what could be and to not be rigid in like always planning it heavily and kind of going a bit more with the flow. So I think like seasons is just a really great thing. Like, and when you're in the motherhood season, there's many, many, many seasons in motherhood. And also as a mom, like,
Jen (24:36.658)
There is, there is, there? Yeah, yeah.
Samantha (24:40.686)
We're not just moms. Like, fuck it, I'm so sick of like that being like the major definition or label that we get. And yeah, it's cool. Like we love that component of who we are, but also it's like, it's not the only piece of us. Like I didn't have a child till I was 34 years of age. And that...
first 34 years of my life, I'm really freaking proud of the things that I did and for it to kind of then like be put on the back burner. I mean, it is fine if it wants, if you want it to be on the back burner and it, or it's fine if you want to pause, but at some point, if you choose to want to integrate it, it's so interesting how, yes, you still see, you still experience everything still within that lens of being a mom. And so everything kind of gets filtered through that and that's your choice, but it's also really annoying when other
put their values of you being a mum as a limitation to you not being able to do other things.
Jen (25:32.007)
Mm.
Jen (25:40.732)
Yeah, let's dig into that a little bit. Cause I remember, I know that you went back to work when Harry was really little. So there was like a, a shorter, potentially a shorter transition into, well, no, there's still, there's a transition into motherhood. You didn't do what we expect a mum to do, which is take time out. What, what, run us through that. So Harry was born and what were you doing at the time? How, did you feel like you wanted to do? And then also what was some of the pushback that you might've gotten from?
people's opinions which they love to give us around whether you were doing the right thing or not that that really matters but I think women battle with that
Samantha (26:18.54)
You do even if you're someone who is very confident with who you are as a person, you're filled with lot of hormones in those early days. So like even the most strong resolved independent person can still be affected. So I guess backtrack a little bit. I had pregnancy induced POTS. So that's Postural Atacocardia Syndrome.
And so during my pregnancy, I was in and out of hospital a lot of the time. I couldn't run, could barely walk, couldn't drive a car, couldn't be on my own. Much of my sense of independence was kind of stripped very quickly. And despite all that stuff happening, and it was quite...
It was really hard. It was interesting to me how easily I was able to yield to just this thing of being a mother is so big. I just need to go with the flow.
And I love that I did that. And then I also kind of say to myself in other times in life, like, why did I have to wait till like, something being like life or death almost before I would yield? So I went with it. And then Harry was born and then my heart rate and blood pressure kind of to settle. Which is crazy, like I can run across the country and that's fine, but like creating life.
Jen (27:27.546)
slow down. Yeah.
Samantha (27:43.136)
is really, really, really hard for me. Maybe because my size, I've got low blood pressure naturally. I have like a little hummingbird heart even naturally. So I guess all of that got exacerbated during pregnancy. But I went back to work when Harry was six weeks old and I'm a corporate speaker. So I'm really fortunate that I get to be able to present to audiences and I'll be up on stage for an hour. There'll be an hour around that time frame of Tech Run and like post stuff.
but I decided I was going to go back to work predominantly in part because I wanted to, in part because I felt that I could, and in part because I had to. Like I was the major income earner in the family and I needed to go back to work. So I decided to take Harry along with me and in the first year of him being on this planet...
he probably did 40 to 50 flights with me. And he would be against my chest really until like an hour on stage and then I would be with him straight away afterwards. So I considered a very, very fortunate position, but I could do that. But also doesn't mean that just because I was fortunate doesn't mean that it was easy.
Jen (29:02.672)
No, like travel is hard. Travel and presenting is hard when without thinking about anybody else, let alone being a brand new mom and all the things that go
Samantha (29:10.092)
Yeah, I, I, particularly when I spend a lot of time getting to the airport, live an hour and a half from the airport. So it would be like an hour and a
Jen (29:17.497)
Yeah.
Samantha (29:18.338)
taxi ride and then it would be getting going through the plane and going on a plane and then that anxiety of okay so we're in a hotel room right now I've got to get to the presentation I would corral my friends in different state to come and look after Harry or I would find a babysitter in different states so there was a bit of trust that was involved with it but then I would typically have Harry close to where I was presenting so I could spend as much time with him beforehand but it was also dealing
like the fact that I definitely know some clients thought I was a little bit unprofessional because I brought my child. And for the most part, I was just like, I don't give a fuck.
and I was like, I was okay with being someone that hopefully made it easier for someone else down the track. And I was just like, I know that this is okay. I also know that it's, I'm still doing exactly what my job is. And sure, you might not like that I have to, you know, I'm breastfeeding maybe half an hour before my talk or I'm, you know.
maneuvering between like being backstage before my talk and maybe kind of checking on Harry but I'm doing exactly the job that you have hired me to do it just looks a little different and maybe it makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable because you're not used to it. And for the most part people were great it really wasn't a problem and but I did also have to wrestle of like do I need to tell people that I'm bringing my child?
But then I'm like, there was a lot of kind of like me trying to work it out and most of the times that I did and sometimes I didn't and the times that I didn't I would, you know, have Harry a little bit further away but also I was like...
Samantha (31:04.748)
I'm still doing my job. Like this is not stopping my performance. Yeah. So it's an interesting one. I'd actually, if people who listen to the podcast have an opinion on it, I would love to hear what they have to say. But I'm impressed now in reflection how much I absorbed. I mean, took India in like a couple of weeks, I took him to India, the US and we just made it work.
Jen (31:24.376)
Yeah.
Samantha (31:34.646)
meaning me. I'm out of
Jen (31:35.676)
The fact that you traveled alone as well, without someone helping you on the flights and helping you in the hotel and sleeping and all that kind of thing. The other thing, Sam, that just came to me was I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was a man that took his baby because I can almost guarantee that people would have been like, wow, how cool is it that he's holding this all together? And he's probably doing his wife a favor by bringing the baby along to work. And it would just be such a different mindset.
Samantha (32:02.754)
Yeah, I mean, I know that when I go to work, I still have to be the holder of the things that are happening for Harry. And it is definitely more of an expectation, even if it's not spoken about, that I will.
Jen (32:04.986)
or judgment.
Samantha (32:18.914)
they will both coexist. I will make sure that I don't drop the ball with Harry. And, you know, like if I, and I choose to go to work and cause I need to, and I love my work, it's all those things together. Like I think it's okay to be like, you know, I work because I need to, and I also work because I love it. Like,
I think for most people, hopefully you enjoy your work, but I think most people also work because they need to. Like it's a very expensive, you know, in Australia today. And so like, how do you make it work? Like, and I'm lucky I have great family support, but a lot of people don't and they might not be able to afford childcare or, know, like there's, there's so many different ways. And I think things are becoming a lot more flexible, but
I think there still is a perception that if you have your child around, you're not being particularly professional. And maybe it drops your professionalism in the sense of that you are a little bit distracted five or 10 % more, but you know what, we're kind of distracted anyway. If something goes wrong with our kid, we're already being distracted. And so it's just visible to you. It's like that kind of like that disadvantage, that visible disadvantage versus the disadvantage that maybe exists internally. You're just having
Jen (33:30.362)
Mm.
Jen (33:33.874)
They're invisible. Yeah. Yes, you're not, I'm not sweeping under the rug for your comfort. But I think what you, what I just heard you say, like it's women hold and I've had this conversation with a lot of other guests of the podcast actually around this, you know, we don't get to just abandon parenthood because we've got some work to do. And then I oscillate between the, get to do this versus I have to do this.
Samantha (33:36.213)
it and maybe deal with it yourself.
Jen (34:03.592)
And that again adds another layer of complexity to my feelings about it because I get to juggle my work to be with my children, but sometimes I don't want to. And then sometimes I do want to and I'm incredibly grateful that I have a life that I can do that. And it's a real interesting awareness that comes up a
Samantha (34:26.051)
And then the flip side is like, do we, because I think women have almost just particularly working moms, have we assumed the fact that we will hold this in duality and therefore taken responsibility for our partners to level up sometimes in that space? But also I do think that thing of nurture, nature nurture comes into it as well.
But I very rarely have experienced, you know, Mark having to go to work and also deal with Harry at the same
Jen (35:06.502)
Yeah, they get to leave and go.
Samantha (35:07.308)
Yeah, I remember I used to get calls from kindergarten asking questions and I'm like, go call Mark.
Don't call him. Like I just stopped answering the calls. I hope that doesn't make me sound irresponsible, but I'm like, I should not be where both of our names are listed on there. I shouldn't have to be the one comes to picking Harry up. Like, and you, and they actually know that we both work like, that is, you know, we live, a small community environment. So I think, that changed, the less I just dropped everything to be the person to always respond to it meant that they had
Jen (35:23.868)
the default parent, yep.
Samantha (35:45.263)
go to the alternate and maybe then the alternate sometimes became as the primary. So there are times when I think you can play a role in changing the narrative and therefore changing your experience. And then there's other times to just, I think we do have to absorb it.
Jen (36:03.653)
Yeah, it's one more point on that. It's like, you know how it's only the mums that get added to the WhatsApp group. It's like then taking the class list and getting all the dads names and adding them to it as well just to make sure that they can see all the shit that we're dealing with.
Samantha (36:17.706)
I can't deal with, I love the mums, but I, because my work requires me to be in so many groups, I just can't do it. So I, they just, yeah, and particularly a big one. So I have a group with three, four other mums from Harry's school. And of course we title ourselves the bad mum group. And we just have correspondence and dialogue. And it is easier to be a bit more vulnerable and real when it's a smaller group.
Jen (36:28.016)
to another group.
Jen (36:46.062)
Yeah, absolutely.
Samantha (36:47.188)
I can't fake it. I'm done with faking it. Including the fact that I accidentally put my charger on.
Jen (36:51.152)
Yeah, I hear ya. I hear ya. So on board with that.
I love it.
Samantha (37:02.565)
Yeah, I
Samantha (37:12.802)
Yeah, I kind of made a decision once I started my business, her trials,
I wanted to be very real with the demographic of women who chose to kind of connect with her trials. I don't think you can be everything for everybody, whilst you also need to be inclusive. So you're open to everybody, but at the end of the day, if you choose to do things in a certain type of way, in terms of how you present yourself, the women who respond to that style will be the ones who kind of like stick with you.
And therefore if you try and dilute yourself by being this like version that's not sustainable or for me realistic, like then the wrong type of people are probably kind of coming to your platform and you can't hold that. You can't hold something that's not real.
Jen (38:04.572)
and it becomes exhausting, right? Yeah, it's exhausting for you having to then show up as this person that you're not in the long run.
Samantha (38:11.372)
Yeah, I mean, this year I was diagnosed with ADHD, which is something that I've known that I've had, but like realistically, you know, I had the official diagnosis this year and I have realised that the areas of my life where I possibly have masked because particular people with neurodivergence, you get critiqued when things that you show up different as...
rubs people the wrong way. so you become particularly women with ADHD, we became very good at working over time to come across as less different. And no one really knew how much work it took to do what was really simple for other people. Which is why you have some of the women who are not more comfortable with their neurodivergency burnt out.
Jen (39:08.944)
Yeah, absolutely.
Samantha (39:09.608)
they are doing like to do a task that might you know to clean a house which might be you know easier no no one really loves to clean the house but like yeah it might take an hour for some people to do it they have a good system and they know how to do it for someone with ADHD and that might be the thing that they struggle with like organizational structure or cleaning or they get distracted really easily or
Jen (39:18.622)
Yep.
Samantha (39:33.674)
piles in multiple different rooms of the house and I think they've done work but all they've done is just kind of move things into different spots. It could take five hours to get that task done and so I am just like this massive advocate of like show up as the version of you in that moment and be real about it and it's freaking liberating and comforting for people around you to go like
Jen (39:39.996)
move things around.
Samantha (40:02.988)
So I don't have to kind of mask or I struggle to turn up on time to drop my child off and I feel guilty every single day for doing it. And so with our little bad mom group to circle back to where we started with that, we just are really honest with each other going, I can't make it. Can someone please just wait.
you know, for five minutes till I get there. And so you haven't dropped the ball, you've created a tribe, you feel safe and you are, and then therefore the more you show up as the real version of you, then the rest of you do so, which means you can catch each other. Like no one is going to get it right all the time. And it's just so nice to have this like tribes get created because of need and care. And so I think that's where like the non -masking can really help.
Jen (40:48.358)
Mmm.
Jen (40:53.156)
Absolutely. I feel like we all need a bad mom's group in our lives. Definitely. I love it. Hey Sam, when you returned to running after having Harry, from a physical perspective, and obviously the mental and emotional goes hand in hand with that, did you find anything was different? What was your experience in obviously, with what you've shared about your your health in your pregnancy, there
Samantha (40:57.978)
I'm going run a magazine party.
Jen (41:22.672)
maybe it was easier in many ways, given after what you experienced. yeah, tell me about your physical body. What changed? What felt different? Did you have to do anything different? Did you check out your pelvic floor? Like, what was that for
Samantha (41:36.524)
Yeah, I took what I thought was time and maybe, yeah, I think you feel like you've taken the time and sometimes it's probably you need a bit more. But I do remember kind of getting back and my first kind of run major run back was like a half marathon in Flinders Island. And I even I had a C section because of the pots and but I literally felt like
there was something so heavy and wrong with my pelvis. I remember, like my hips were just in so much pain or there was something not right. And I I remember I finished that run and I got it done. And that night I had to go to like the Flinders Island hospital because I had this incredibly massive headache. My entire body was like in shakes from the stress of it. And I just was like, I got to this right back.
Jen (42:27.666)
Mmm.
Samantha (42:31.392)
It's like cool that I could, but I just am not there yet. So I needed more time. Yeah, so yeah, the body was able to do it, but it didn't mean that there wasn't like a huge kind of shock. Yeah, I don't know. Do you have a similar experience like?
Jen (42:47.93)
Yeah, it does. Well, I mean, how many weeks postpartum was that for
Samantha (42:56.398)
It was, I know that it was in August and I had Harry in March. So it's not like it was massive. It was, wasn't like it was a huge period of time, but like what I didn't also think is Sam, you didn't exercise because you couldn't for like almost the six months whilst you were pregnant. So it's not just like you talk about, you know, you take your 12 weeks or when, know, whatever it is after having your child. And then yes. And then normally someone like me with
Jen (43:01.702)
Okay. Yeah.
Jen (43:13.744)
Yeah.
Samantha (43:26.402)
background if I hadn't had the pots probably could have built up in that time frame but not then considering that I hadn't been exercising for the six months before that as well. So it's I didn't holistically think of the bigger picture.
Jen (43:42.886)
And did anyone talk to you about pelvic health and seeing a pelvic health physio and all of that kind of thing, or it just wasn't on your radar?
Samantha (43:49.676)
No, it was something that was talked about and I did do the tests. And it was, sorry, I'm just yawning because I'm tired.
Jen (43:59.164)
You're fine. Yawn away, we are who we are. How we are. I didn't even take that as any kind of like, yeah, that was just you yawnin'. Yeah, good.
Samantha (44:06.509)
I'm boring myself.
No. Yeah, I used to yawn during choir and was because my choir teacher used to say to me that it's just I wasn't getting enough oxygen in. So it's not always because I think we think it's because we're bored, it's probably because we're just not breathing properly. Not breathing properly. Yeah, but so I did, but I just think
Jen (44:21.639)
Huh.
Jen (44:28.93)
Not breathing probably another female thing, right? Learn to breathe, but yeah.
Samantha (44:38.346)
It's more of a gradual thing and I probably needed to do, you know, more strength. it was actually a massive reason why I created her trails because becoming a mom and wanting to get back, I wanted to do it so much more holistically. I needed to do it more holistically. And I wanted to be surrounded around other women who were moms and kind of understood that.
that juggle and the duality, but also just other women in general. And so her trial started with that. It started as a half marathon holistic training program that had shared coaching calls. So yes, you got to ask any questions that you want, you also, sometimes you don't know what the questions are or you're too tired to think of the questions. And so to hear of other women's questions, it was like, cool. Again, I don't have to do all that work. Sometimes,
you know obviously we get programs from coaches because you know we don't want to think about it and even as a coach when I'm training I have a program and I always perform better when someone else has crafted that for me because I get to be the athlete.
as opposed to the coach. I don't have to duel my roles up in that. I want the accountability and I want the structure and so that's kind of why we started her trails really to start with and then it just kind of flew from there.
Jen (46:07.83)
And you have lots of, like you've said, lots of mums that are part of her trails, which I love. I love mostly working mums.
Samantha (46:12.62)
Yeah, I'd say working moms. Yeah, working.
are our major demographic, not our exclusive demographic. We have women from early 20s into their late 70s do our program. Like we have this badass woman in New Zealand who's like, know, her mid 70s who does the programs and we have a lot of women, perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause. And so it's just like this, you know, great, it's great to have all those different
types of women because everyone is learning from the different experiences pre post of what they're actually going through. And it's just like kind of really safe reckoning. And everyone like the group runs which we have is for free. So many people repeatedly say it's just a cup filler, they get to be themselves.
Jen (47:10.152)
Yeah, and it's that creating the community where people can talk about that because I think women live in silos and we're not offered education for so much of our lives. But when we bring women together that are across different demographics, then you get the 55 year old woman running next to the 25 year old woman sharing and having those like, so even if it's not official education inside of about pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, menopause, which you may have as well, but you have
storytelling or the experience sharing that some women miss out on if their family is not wired that way.
Samantha (47:45.566)
completely. you know, I'm not, you know, yet at perimenopause.
But in the last couple of years since starting her trails, because of these group runs, I am so much better equipped for changes. And I think in the absence of that education or even just anecdotal passing down of stories, it can be a horrific time. And again, for you personally, but you know, I'm now doing work in corporate organizations saying that like a lot of organizations need to do education
both the men and women of like perimenopause and menopause, because what happens is a lot of the women who are experiencing it don't know that they're experiencing it. And therefore their work suffers and their relationships with their colleagues are impacted because of it. And no one is knowing what's happening. And the women think they're crazy. Then the men think that they can no longer do their jobs and they don't realize it's because of a hormonal shift. And so it's like, yeah, I've been doing some
recently with Archivarix and we're in like conversations, we're speaking about some of the things to help women in what is a typically more male dominated work environment. And we spoke about that and it was just so good to kind of go like, yeah, this is another factor of the experience of women.
Jen (49:12.21)
But don't you think that starts like, you if we backtrack a little bit further, if you've got, and I know that perimenopause happens to every woman, pregnancy, postpartum doesn't happen to every woman. But if we're, if the women that do have babies come back into the workplace and the work environment is not educated and open to her work looking different, her mental and emotional capacity, the way that she feels about a body, then we've already shut down with,
We've not even opened that, so if we can open the conversation in for pregnant and postpartum, and then it's such an easier conversation when we move into perimenopause and menopause as well. I don't know.
Samantha (49:51.766)
Yeah, and because if work environments cut off accessibility for women with children, you are already reducing your pool of women who can work at your organization. You are therefore then also limiting the experience base and the skill set that women can provide who have had that certain type of experience.
And then, you know, we know this, like when you have a child, you are a bit more, I don't know, don't know, there's statistic of it, but once you've gone through motherhood, you're actually more comfortable and brave talking about what sometimes seem like more taboo topics, because it just, there's nothing like having to open your legs up and...
either be kind or push something out of your body and then have to breastfeed and have you have mastitis and have your nipple squeezed and all of a sudden things that you used to be really protective of, you're just like, this is part and parcel of like creating life and you become more comfortable about your body and being able to communicate that and not apologize for it.
Jen (50:39.353)
Yeah.
Jen (51:02.278)
Yeah, I think that there's, I agree with that, but I also, and not but, and I also think there's a cohort of women that have been shut down their whole lives around periods and all that stuff. So they carry that to them in motherhood. So they need those women that are willing to speak to then be able to find their voice as well and kind of share their experience. So it's like, it's women helping women and then we need the men in these workplaces, whether
pregnancy, perimenopause, menopause, the men that are willing to stand up and say, hey, this is important and we need to have these conversations and we need to have stuff in place across the life cycle of a female.
Samantha (51:42.07)
Yeah and we need senior women in leadership positions because
Jen (51:46.908)
And then why don't we have them because they've been booted out in pregnancy because the organization wasn't set up for them to succeed in the first place. Yeah.
Samantha (51:52.226)
Yeah. Exactly. as I said, like everyone is going to become a mother, but you are reducing the pool. And also because you've reduced the pool, it's less inviting for even non -mothers to work in those environments because there's just not enough there. And so because it can become very intimidating and that's when you kind of get boys clubs and you
Yeah, it's a really fascinating space and I know a lot of organizations are working on it.
Jen (52:20.859)
it is.
Samantha (52:24.106)
and we're only going to grow better. And the fact that we now have a lot more of an increased appetite for remote working environments has really served women. But let's not be denied that there are now even less boundaries in the home environment because it's like we can work from home on a lot, you know, for many more women can and so can men as well. And so there is pros, but the flip side is it's like the delineation that we create even in our own lives.
harbor.
Jen (52:56.166)
Yeah, but I think the men have their office and they go in and close the door and the women have that office at the table and deal with all the other shit as well. So you're absolutely right about that. The cross boundaries. Sam, I know that one of your big things is making sure that women, especially moms, taking care of themselves and going off to do things for themselves. And I really sit in this camp of, yes,
Samantha (53:05.39)
sign up and get us.
Jen (53:22.226)
do it to be a better mom, but do it because you fucking deserve it because you are a human. Share with me a little bit more about your experience of making sure that you take time out of your life and then how you also encourage other women and other moms to do that as
Samantha (53:39.236)
Yeah, I do it. I have, I do it and then I sometimes don't do it because I can't fit it in. I sometimes think like during the work days, I have to work. so, and then, you know, after I Harry up from school, there's not time always to do things for myself, like go out for a run.
And so therefore like the window of opportunities become nil. And I think there are a lot of women who are in that category. And everyone has different circumstances, you you've got single moms, you've got moms that, you know, yeah, there's so many, know, had they have one child and therefore like they really can't leave their children at home because there's not even another
even another child or an elder sibling. So therefore, even if you want to go out for a 30 minute jog out the road, like you just can't until the kids are much older.
So there are so many different dynamics that people have. So I can only speak from what I know. And the best example I have is when I wanted to go and do my first major expedition after having Harry. He was four and a half years of age. I wanted to go to Nepal. I wanted, I always have had this desire to do this kind of for many, many, years, traverse across Nepal. And I started to come to this realization.
Time is of the essence. We had just been through COVID and so much had been taken away. I was like, this isn't a given that I'm just gonna be able to do this one day. Like it is such a big project. Whilst my mind is able and my body is willing, I have to leap and go now. And then I was like, but Harry's too young and all this kind of stuff. And he was off the back of doing Survivor where I got judged for being a mum
Samantha (55:33.408)
or not being motherly enough or being too strategic or being a woman with too much of an opinion or being a woman that would do everything for my husband had all these kind of commentary that were far more about me as a woman or me as a mum versus me as a game player. And yeah, me as a person that has a right to play that game hard. And I...
Jen (55:53.296)
you as a person.
Samantha (56:00.64)
needed to get away from the external noise and the internal noise and get back to like my true essence and where I feel my best. And so I wanted to use that Nepal project to get back into my social impact work, movement in nature, the best circuit breaker to removing anxiety and overwhelm, big goal extension, challenge myself.
And the number one question I got when I was crafting that project and proud to start sharing it was, how is Harry going to cope? And you know, don't you have a kid? Do you feel, are you worried? Like how, is he going to remember you? Is he going to be concerned? And early days, even though I was like, he has a dad, like he has a dad. And I know it's not desirable to be away from your kid, but how many dads
you know, FIFO workers and work away. And this was my job. I guess what I do seems pleasurable, but also it's my job. Like I'm an endurance athlete. I'm an adventurer. I'm a sponsored athlete. This is part of how I earn my income, as well as the fact that like I also then convert that into social impact work. And it seems really, it is passion fueled, but
Jen (57:00.018)
Mm -hmm.
Samantha (57:21.388)
because it doesn't look like other people's work, people kind of think it's not work. And so I'm also challenged with that kind of concept of it as well. But I, early days, did everything to kind of justify why it me a mum. but like, you know.
I'm going to, I don't know. I had a bullshit list of excuses, which I think are kind of, but I had like a lot of answers and it never, no one was ever satisfied with it. And then I got to a point where one of my best friends, Kimmy Nicklepill, the author of The Gift of Asking Power, was like, why can't you just tell them that you're doing it because you want to do it. And I remember we were actually on a hike together and
Jen (57:45.198)
Yeah, I'm sure you did.
Jen (57:56.784)
know, beautiful, yeah, beautiful, Kemi.
Samantha (58:09.246)
stood my god I'm almost emotional thinking I stood still with her and I just cried I'm like yeah like I can say that I want to do this because I can say that I'm doing this because I want to and does that make me a bad mom does that make me a bad wife does that make me just and then I was like it doesn't matter if that makes me bad to my partner to my friends to society
Fuck And I think the moment I owned it, it actually became a lot easier. That said, it still was really, hard. And in the sense that I think there are a lot of people that are all about equality.
until you taking up space means that they have to not have as much space. Meaning they might have to be home to and not say yes to everything or they have to inconvenience their work life to accommodate the fact that you're going to go and do your work. And that's what I really encourage people to think about. If you are for equality, be comfortable that you're going to have to take some
Jen (59:05.083)
Adjust.
Samantha (59:26.616)
of the burden. That's what it sometimes means. Like that's not where it starts but that's kind of some of the practicality of
And that is okay. That is fair because women shouldn't have to have all the burden whilst also still trying to seek personal growth and professional growth. you know, like we have these opportunities to have jobs now, but we are still doing all of it. It's like we've got, I almost sometimes wish I could just be at home with Harry because whilst that is an incredibly challenging job to do, at least I can do one thing. I now am doing both of the things.
Jen (01:00:01.509)
One thing, absolutely.
Samantha (01:00:03.744)
and I'm having to do with them at a really high level to feel good about myself or to be, you know, and it's really hard. So that's what it sometimes means. Like for women to take up space and to, and that was like me as a job, but it's also applies to self care. For a woman to be able to receive and a mother self care, someone else has to take some of that burden away. And it requires.
Jen (01:00:27.65)
Yeah, and she has to be able to... Sorry, carry on. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Samantha (01:00:31.618)
Yeah, you should ask, like, you should ask, you have to ask, you can't expect, don't expect someone is just going to automatically take your burden. No one wants to, like, that's not human nature. And if you have a partner or friends in your life or parents who are like, Hey, like, go get a massage, go for it, get a run. You are so fricking lucky that they even ask that.
Most people don't get that and but therefore it's on you. No one is going to create your sense of balance if you don't advocate for it for yourself. And don't be pissed that they don't advocate for it for you if you're not willing to advocate it for yourself. You have to create the dynamic and balance that you know that you deserve. And I'm saying all this and knowing that like I still take a huge toll and
it is still the thing that doesn't always happen. I actually have a Peloton bike up in this room right now, which I've only just got. And because at the moment it's really hard to get outside because it's freezing cold at night time, know, early in morning and late at night. Even though I live on the trails and I'm working really hard, you know, at her trails to try and create this platform because I really, really believe in it and I want to be a present mom.
Jen (01:01:31.898)
Nice.
Samantha (01:01:53.006)
And, I, you know, had an opportunity to get the Peloton bike and even, and then yes, sleep is really important to me, but at 1am last night, after I set up that bike, I did a 30 minute workout. Cause I was like.
Jen (01:02:05.8)
He didn't.
Samantha (01:02:08.43)
And I loved it. like, yes, then I had the adrenaline and couldn't go to sleep. obviously that's not how I want to plan it moving forward. But I can now do that whilst maybe Harry is doing some drawing at the table and he I'm like, Hey, like, let's we can have a conversation or I can just hurry. tuning up for 30 minutes. I'm here with you. can do your thing. But I'm going to do that. So like you some part of like self care is also being flexible in how you create it.
Jen (01:02:15.067)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.
Samantha (01:02:35.886)
Um, and it doesn't have to always be perfect. It doesn't always have to be like going to get a massage where no one's around you. There have been times when I will go and get a treatment because I need it, but I bring Harry with me and the compromises I give him a device for that 45 minutes. So that's how we get it done. Um, and so yeah, it's, you know, it's optimum to have like a perfect sanctuary where you just have you and yourself, but I'm also a realistic optimist and like,
Jen (01:03:04.264)
was gonna say, it has to be realistic, doesn't it?
Samantha (01:03:06.134)
Yeah, what I've done is better than, know, early days, like I need to get my eyebrows done. I would just take Harry with me and he'd like sit on me whilst I'd get my eyebrows done. And I was like, at least I'm getting them done. Yeah. So that's, that's my advocation of self care and being around other women who are also investing in themselves becomes contagious and seeing other busy, successful women that you admire getting it done.
Jen (01:03:18.48)
It's working, it's working.
Samantha (01:03:34.924)
you know, it makes you level up a bit. It's like, well, if I've got some women who are doctors and have three kids and still are getting out for their trail runs. And I'm like, if she can do it, I can get this done. I can try.
Jen (01:03:51.036)
can try. Yep, yep. Absolutely. Sam, I was looking at your website earlier and you've got, I know that you do these beautiful adventures with Harry and you're also working on some mother and child adventures and I just wanted to talk about that before we start to kind of wrap up the conversation because there's also this element I think in motherhood of women that do like to move their bodies, women that like to exercise including their children and
Do want to talk to a little bit about what you're creating, what you've done with Harry, how you get him moving with you? But I know, I mean, I know it's been part of his life for so long, but yeah,
Samantha (01:04:27.404)
Yeah, KVS. My son's not super human or a superhero. I want to say
Jen (01:04:31.984)
He looks like it on social media, I have to tell you that.
Samantha (01:04:34.636)
Yeah, but I mean, it looks like it because he's doing it. It's not like because he's doing it supremely, it's because he's doing it. And so therefore, like for a lot of kids, as well as adults, if you give them the opportunity to experience something that becomes their norm. so like Harry's norm is probably looks different than a lot of other kids because it's just because he's doing some of the stuff that I've done. So
Jen (01:04:39.376)
Yes.
Samantha (01:05:03.118)
When I did the Nepal thing, a part of me wanted, if I'm going to run across the country or traverse the country in 50 days, I wanted Harry to be a part of it. So we had a map of Nepal up and I would like be at point like where the different places that I would go. So he kind of got a sense of what I was doing and like he would be like, and mommy's going from here and all the way across to the other side. And I wanted to bring him out before I started. So he got a sense of the place. So I decided to do a climatization trick.
because I needed to get acclimatized, but also because I wanted to take Harry. So it was the Langtang Valley and it gets up to like four and a half thousand meters above sea level. And I don't know, I can't remember how long it was. In my mind I have like, it was between 50 to 70 K over a couple of days. And so I hired a, and Mark was going to come, but then he was in a movie at the time, Mad Max, and his filming schedule blew out.
and he literally pulled out like three days, he was meant to come like two days after I'd already gotten over there with Harry. But then he then got on the plane that two two days later, got a phone call from the director, decided no, I'm gonna go and do these new scenes, got his bags off the plane and then got, went. So I did it by myself with Harry, which I was comfortable to do, just wasn't
what was planned. But I think it was the best thing ever because I felt like in that space of adventure, my patience for Harry's adaption was higher. I had no expectation of how he was going to show up. I had no expectation of it being a personal, you know, how far and fast am I going to do this? I was so happy to surrender to his experience, which became my new experience.
so it was incredibly exciting to see him like feel this for the first time. I think being just focused me on him versus me focused on like me, Mark and Harry, it was almost like too many dynamics. and it was the best experience. Harry still says it was the best adventure we've had. He speaks about it at least once a week. We hired a porter and a guide in part to help, but also because I wanted Harry to have that experience of this
Samantha (01:07:28.066)
you know, cross cultural team. And I think if you do these adventures, it's so nice to support local economy as well. And I had a carrier where Harry was at the very, very limit of what that carrier could take, but it was like my backup plan. And less was more. I only took clothes for Harry that I could fit in that carrier. So it was like, and then I carried a backpack with like some, you know, snacks, all of my stuff, our sleeping bags.
Jen (01:07:30.653)
Mm -hmm.
Samantha (01:07:58.237)
and he probably walked maybe 70 % of it, the 30 % he was in the carrier, and it was technical. We held hands the entire way, because it was technical. Like it required a lot of focus, but I was so happy for it. Like, and that's why I say, don't feel like this is kind of, not everyone would vibe this, like this is my thing. So I was so happy that Harry wanted to do it and that it was important. When you want your...
Jen (01:08:09.564)
Wow.
Samantha (01:08:24.942)
kids to enjoy the things that you like. One of my biggest lessons is like, let them be in the driver's seat. If you are pushing them to do what you love and it's kind of all on your terms, it's almost like the quickest way of getting them to go like, this is mom's thing. Like, I don't want to be a part of it. So anytime like Harry does a trail run that I might share on social media, it's because he's, I've said, Hey, do you, would you, I'm going to do this. Would you like to do something?
And he goes, yes. And then we kind of like plan it that way. And it just, I remember I had, was a couple of women who were doing that hike who I bumped into and they were like, I didn't know that you could bring a kid. And I'm like, there's no rules. There's no rules that we've created. It's your rules. Like, yes, this looks different. And yes, I'm going to the beat of the drum of Harry and I, but you can do this stuff. It does require more planning.
Jen (01:09:11.217)
Take your rules.
Samantha (01:09:24.032)
definitely more patience, the comfortability of like changing and adaptability and all that kind of stuff. But if you're fine with that, and you see the benefits, it is so worth it. So from that experience, I was like, I want to help more women embark on adventures with their kids that are off the beaten track, where they get to you know, like when your kid goes to school, there's like so much you don't see of like them growing.
of like them being out of their comfort zone and what is their resilience and you know how do they cope in different circumstances and so I wanted to create this thing where the mum and child got to experience something together and their bond would develop but also like you got to have this bird's eye view to like their relationships with the other kids and the other mums and you got to spend time with mums and so yeah I've created this thing in the Northern
We go literally in the most off -beaten track. We literally have a campsite set up incredibly well where the first treaty was signed in Australia. It's private indigenous owned land. There's like showers and like, we have like swag tents and you share a tent with your child. And we kind of like do all these different like hikes and we do a bike ride, you know, to Simpson's
It's all Indigenous staff and we walk on country, we learn about like bush tucker, we get told stories, campfires and you know this was the we did the inaugural trip this year and I actually brought my mum and my son so I had like the eldest person and the youngest person. My ability is high. My beautiful mum had just finished
Jen (01:11:13.562)
Amazing.
Samantha (01:11:20.27)
her radio therapy for her, she got diagnosed with breast cancer at beginning of this year. She'd just finished her treatment. My mom is not this super fit person. She's a great gardener and a lot of will, but she did every component of this trip. Like she did the 17 K bike ride. She did all the hikes and yeah, I would take her pack sometimes. And one of the guides helped her, but it was just so beautiful.
Jen (01:11:37.768)
Amazing.
Samantha (01:11:48.888)
to have, you know, mum and child having my mum and having my child. And then mum said, I have not seen young boys laugh this much. And with no technology, kids, their imagination were like, they would play games and like they were like, because Harry's quite a dynamic kid and like loves imagination in some areas. He would be like, he loves playing mum and dads and like brothers and sisters and grandparents.
And he was the youngest kid, but then all the older kids were getting into it as well. And we had a bit of an age group, different from a Harry being six to the eldest being 14. And it would just work because then sometimes, sometimes it was the older kids that would help the younger kids. But sometimes there were kids who were younger, but had more experience in a certain thing. So they would help an older kid and it kind of cross pollinated. It was amazing. And it was the first time we did it and we're doing it again next year. And it was
Yeah, we've got to grow. I'll send you the video so you can put in like the show notes of like what it looks like, but it was just, it was magic and it was expansive. And yeah, it's also like the more you do it too, like it's only going to get better and better because we start to really refine the formula of these like mom and child experiences. We're actually doing a trip in January next year, three back to back trips into Derby, Tasmania. But the third one I'm really, really, really contemplating having it as like mom and kids.
Jen (01:12:52.018)
I would love to, I'd love that.
Samantha (01:13:17.688)
come to it as well. So like mountain biking and trail running. So I do want to integrate, create spaces where women get to be just with other women, which I do in throughout Lara Pinter adventures. It's incredibly sacred women's space and women's work. And then I also want to do ones where like that migration of mom and child. And I want to do like eventually like older mom and child dynamics.
Jen (01:13:21.986)
cool.
Jen (01:13:43.24)
looked at that when you had over 14 or 15 to 18, register your interest. And I was like, that is, I've got my eye on all of your things. I'm not sure when they will drop into my life, but they will. Every time something comes up, I'm like, can I do that? Like, does it
Samantha (01:13:52.426)
get it's totally you know like their investments but they're like that what they do to your life and the people around you are enormous and they're like so like they're you could not put these together on your own because they're kind of complicated and that's kind of I always say if I'm putting together something that possibly someone else could just do then people shouldn't come with me like it kind of it's like I the value comes in the fact of the integration of the different
Jen (01:14:04.017)
Mm.
Samantha (01:14:21.502)
of the pieces that like without a guide orchestrating it with the experiences that I've had over the years and the time that I've spent in a lot of these remote environments. Like I had that skill set to do it and I feel like that's like a piece of the puzzle that comes in that kind of programming. And I believe women deserve to be spoiled because we do so much of the spoiling and the attention to detail. And so I'm obsessive. So, and I don't give too much away. Like the funny thing is
the right women come on the trips because I don't give too much because there needs to be that surrender. And often in remote environments, things change. And so if you, lot of women, because we have to plan for our families, we're used to everything being planned. And therefore, if something looks different, we kind of flip out a little bit. And so sometimes less is more in what you know. So the exact right people come on the trips, but they're just, I
would almost lose my own equilibrium now if I didn't have two periods of the year when I didn't go to the Northern Territory. It is like the heart of Australia. It is like the soul of who we are. And if you are, it's totally different. It like balances me every time. It reminds me of like the embracing of the simple things and being, it's probably why I can kind of talk to you today.
Jen (01:15:35.058)
There's a different energy out there, that's for sure. Yep.
Samantha (01:15:46.924)
and talk about like that notion of like not masking and like be yourself and be passionate and you know, be comfortable being abrasive and call out shit. And then other times kind of know when you have to bite your tongue a little bit because we have to play it a little bit to keep moving forward. So it's like knowing that nothing is all right. And sometimes we have to pick the different pieces of the puzzle of ourselves and society to achieve what we need
to do for ourselves, but also for hopefully future generations of women to have things even easier and better.
Jen (01:16:23.704)
Mmm. Sam, I have one last question. If you were to share what your legacy would be or what changes you want to see in the world, what would that be for
Samantha (01:16:39.93)
for women and men to start to acknowledge and actively advocate for women who are entering into spaces that they haven't belonged in. So, you know, I felt it from personal experience, you know, I would consider myself to be a trailblazer in the sense that I tried to do that. I've tried to be in spaces that women haven't always belonged in.
and it's amazing how silent it is around you and the lack of credibility that you're given even when you've proven yourself and how much effort it takes to get to the start lines and then you can watch another man do that exact same thing and they get revered for it and the immense amount of opportunities that come to them
because they're doing the thing, even if you're doing it too. It's just, the problem, half the reason is because other women are not backing up those women. We're not particularly loud cheerers. And I think it becomes from this like place of in the past where we felt like opportunity was so finite to us. That is not the case anymore. And even if it were, go and create another fucking pie.
Like you can create another part, don't, you know, and so the only change that we will start to see for a co -opportunity for women with pay and opportunities, for media retention, for social notoriety will come when, or when we start to see the recognition of women do that stuff, doing that stuff well. so that's what I try and talk to women about. Like if you see a woman,
trying to get into space, if you see a woman in like a medical profession that is typically made up of men, just know how hard they are working to be there. And like that on its own merit deserves acknowledgement.
Jen (01:18:45.178)
Absolutely. It is an interesting. It's a big self reflection when
if for women when they feel like there's scarcity and then it's a big shift to be that woman who is willing to open doors for other people and raise them up. And I do think it comes with like age. I think we get better at doing that when we were not looking, we're not worried about scarcity and we don't have the same lack of self -worth as we did before. And we really start to truly understand that we're stronger together. And there's absolutely no reason to work in competition with other women because
when we do come together, it's beautiful.
Samantha (01:19:26.722)
Yeah, and knowing...
It's a hard one. Like it's, it's also natural to feel it. when you kind of feel that, gosh, like if I, I acknowledge this other woman, what does that say about me? Or will that impact me? But to kind of say to yourself, find your tribe and love them hard, even if they are in direct competition with you. So, that is a really important kind of distinction to make. and in any dynamic, there are going to be people that possibly try and bring you down.
that's not necessarily just a gender thing. But it's just so good to come from a place of abundance and to not be fearful all the time. And if you feel like that's not your way inclined, the best way to change that is to challenge it and is to operate. Yeah. It's like if you feel jealous, if you feel threatened.
Jen (01:20:18.407)
lead into
Samantha (01:20:24.704)
actually that is then when you get on social media and you go that it is so amazing what you're doing and the more you can kind of challenge that narrative or that wiring in your brain and you feel good for it like it actually feels good to support other women you over time like you you'll change yourself
Jen (01:20:44.86)
Yeah, I have to agree. It's like when that pan comes up, it's like, okay, cool. I can feel it. I'm accepting it. How do I now have a different action than I would do if I just went straight into scarcity? So it is that even if it's a text message, I see what you're doing. It's so amazing. Like congratulations. And it just starts to change because there's no doubt that that woman is feeling that too. And then by you reaching out to her, then she's like, I get to do this differently too. And then we have this, this difference.
Samantha (01:20:48.291)
Hello.
Samantha (01:21:08.748)
Yeah, and I should support other people and it has a beautiful ripple effect. across the board when we challenge our default settings, we grow.
Jen (01:21:13.926)
It really does.
Jen (01:21:20.498)
We do, we do. Sam, if somebody wants to reach out to you, I'll make sure everything's in the show notes, but where do they find you? If they want to come on a run or a walk or an adventure with you, where are they going? What are they doing?
Samantha (01:21:34.898)
First thing, kind of Her Trails related, hertrails .com, a social media where her underscore trails. And you know, we're active on social media, put the website, you can email us at info at hertrails .com. And then whether it's to do with that or even kind of like my personal stuff, or if you have any questions or thoughts relating to anything that we've talked about in the podcast, you know, probably most active on Instagram.
so just at Samantha Gash and I am pretty good with DMS. and yeah, I'm, I'm, yeah, mean, sometimes I can take time, like then send a second one, send a second one. And then I think, know, you and I, we do a bit of voice memo because it's sometimes so easier to like share a voice memo and to kind of feel tone and like personality. Then like, you know, we're always, it's hard to sometimes type when you're on the move a bit.
Jen (01:22:11.292)
You are a contestant to that.
Jen (01:22:34.554)
It is, is. Sam, I want to say thank you, massive thank you again for joining us on the podcast today. I love following you on social media. I love looking at the presentations that you're doing. Like I love looking at all the new adventures, whether it's Survivor or when you did Relief Run and all these different things that you've done. And it's incredibly inspiring to see another woman charging ahead in all the spaces that you are, because it really does say, hey, I can do this and you can do it too, even if it's in a different space. So.
Samantha (01:23:02.41)
yeah, there is nothing, yeah, well there's nothing in terms of like, there's nothing that's special about me other than like the belief that I can. And I know that that is very powerful, but if I just know that if I can.
Jen (01:23:04.028)
Thank you for your
Samantha (01:23:19.988)
so many more women could be doing a lot of these different types of things if they want to. If they want to and they want to put the work into it. Always the caveat. So back yourself and if self -doubt is your issue start to challenge that by getting proof from experience.
gives you that undeniable proof that you are who you want to be, that you are who you say you are. Like that proof counts and it multiplies.
Jen (01:23:54.428)
Yeah, and you can only keep on layering that right and moving and stepping into the next space. Thank you again, Sam. Have a beautiful, beautiful afternoon and I'm sure that we will be in touch soon. Take care.
Samantha (01:24:04.888)
We absolutely will. Thanks for having me.
Jen (01:24:07.612)
Bye.
